Posted on 01/28/2014 7:27:17 PM PST by NKP_Vet
"If a teaching isn’t explicit in the Bible, then we don’t accept it as doctrine!" That belief, commonly known as sola scriptura, was a central component of all I believed as a Protestant. This bedrock Protestant teaching claims that Scripture alone is the sole rule of faith and morals for Christians. Diving deeper into its meaning to defend my Protestant faith against Catholicism about twenty years ago, I found that there was no uniform understanding of this teaching among Protestant pastors and no book I could read to get a better understanding of it.
What role does tradition play? How explicit does something have to be in Scripture before it can be called doctrine? Does Scripture tell us what is absolutely essential for us to believe as Christians? How can we determine the canon using sola scriptura? All these questions and more pointed to the central question: Where is sola scriptura itself taught in the Bible?
(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.com ...
My personal opinion is that the Tradition of men during each council over the 800 years modified the scripture to fit the political climate.
It wasn’t the first time the reason for each dispensation was because the opposition got the Lord’s playbook and alter it!
I believe what you are referring to is called a drought. I wouldn't read too much into this, considering all the times the End-Times Alarmists have been wrong.
Recall Hal Lindsey's false prophesy of the 1970's, and how that turned out. He was on talk shows, news shows, you name it, plugging his book. When asked what would happen if his prediction was false, Lindsey said, "I'll be a bum."
LOL! He got that prophesy right, but that is the only one. His buddies have rehabilitated his image to the naive masses so he can still sell his books; but not to us old-timers.
Back to the Euphrates, I recommend against trying to take a book of prophecy literally, when they are loaded with figurative speech. For example:
"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy." (Rev 13:1)
If you take the other parts of the prophecy literally, shouldn't you also take that one literally? And how about this:
"And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." (Rev 16:3)
That doesn't mean they are not good imagery; only that generally a literal interpretation leads to false conclusions. If you read the history of the time, there are good explanations for all the events of the Revelation (well, most all, in my case.) Even "wars and rumors of wars" from the Olivet Discourse makes sense when you consider the Pax Romana period that began under Augustus was a long period of peace that lasted until a few years prior to the Jewish-Roman war that began about 66A.D. That kind of peace is unheard of in modern times.
For example, Chilton wrote on the Euphrates imagery:
"The image of the drying of the Euphrates for a conquering army is taken, in part, from a stratagem of Cyrus the Persian, who conquered Babylon by temporarily turning the Euphrates out of its course, enabling his army to march up the riverbed into the city, taking it by surprise.2] The more basic idea, of course, is the drying up of the Red Sea (Ex. 14:21-22) and the Jordan River (Josh. 3:9-17; 4:22-24) for the victorious people of God. Again there is the underlying note of tragic irony: Israel has become the new Babylon, an enemy of God that must now be conquered by a new Cyrus, as the true Covenant people are miraculously delivered and brought into their inheritance. As Barrington observes, the coming of the armies from the Euphrates “surely represents nothing but the return of Titus to besiege Jerusalem with further reinforcements”; 22 and it is certainly more than coincidental that thousands of these very troops actually did come from the Euphrates.23 [David Chilton, Days of Vengeance, "Judgement From The Sanctuary", p.407]
That last footnote was this:
"There followed him also three thousand drawn from those that guarded the river Euphrates;" [Flavius Josephus, Wars of the Jews, V.1.6]
Even the reference to the bloody sea in 16:3 above, has some historical significance:
"But some of them thought that to die by their own swords was lighter than by the sea, and so they killed themselves before they were drowned; although the greatest part of them were carried by the waves, and dashed to pieces against the abrupt parts of the rocks, insomuch that the sea was bloody a long way, and the maritime parts were full of dead bodies; for the Romans came upon those that were carried to the shore, and destroyed them; and the number of the bodies that were thus thrown out of the sea was four thousand and two hundred. The Romans also took the city without opposition, and utterly demolished it." [Flavius Josephus, Wars Of The Jews, III.9.3]
" … and the Romans leaped out of their vessels, and destroyed a great many more upon the land: one might then see the lake all bloody, and full of dead bodies, for not one of them escaped." [Flavius Josephus, Wars Of The Jews, III.10.9]
Philip
Don’t be preposterous. The Jews meticulously maintained the scriptures of which there are copies today. If you don’t even believe the Hebrew and Greek copies of scripture we have available to us today are the inspired, infallible words of God you have nothing.
Mormonism teaches that God was a mortal man once, had sex with Mary and fathered Jesus.
That is taken out of context and ridiculous.
Jesus is a separate being from the Father, being the half-brother of Satan, who was born to another of God’s wives.
That is another falsehood!
Where are you getting this stuff from?
They are liars and deceivers because they embellish the context in which it was taken. I know nothing of a half brother what garbage you are spewing and assuming it is the whole truth with out doing some research.
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many have put a spin on things they do not understand or some omit the context which things are spoken.
God did not have sex with Mary it is not our doctrine it was an opinion of some but it is not doctrine of the Lord’s Church.
I suppose in life all your opinions have all been correct!
When Lucifer the light bearer when was among all the sons of God that shouted for joy, would he have not at that time been a brother?
>>If you take the other parts of the prophecy literally, shouldn't you also take that one literally?<<
Philip, with all sincerity I urge you to stop promoting the theory you are promoting here and do some study on Biblical and prophetic imagery. You are so far off track a person through this type of forum wouldn’t know where to start.
NO. Not to Jesus. Lucifer would have been created by Jesus.
>> It wasn’t the first time the reason for each dispensation was because the opposition got the Lord’s playbook and alter it!<<
Don’t be preposterous. The Jews meticulously maintained the scriptures of which there are copies today. If you don’t even believe the Hebrew and Greek copies of scripture we have available to us today are the inspired, infallible words of God you have nothing.
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I am sorry CB they are not the originals they are copies of copies.
For example when Jesus was discussing with the Pharisees and the Seduces and scribes both sect of the Jewish faith had different points of view on doctrine one believe in the resurrection and angel the other group did not.
There was a period that temple was under the influence of the Hellenic philosophy and is why Jesus kick them out of the House of the Lord.
They were even arguing with Jesus about the Lord own doctrine, which they had no clue who they were talking too.
They were angry with him he was going to upset a good thing they had going.
We have read in a few places of Deuteronomy 4 and Rev. 22:18-19 Gal 1 isn’t about the LDS in 1800 Jesus was complaining to Paul at the time due to the climate they already Crucified the Lord what is going to stop them from perverting the word.
Yes the Word of God is inherit but what man does to something on a scroll or written in this kingdom is hard to hold on to.
Even the masses never laid eyes on the written word until the 1500’s
Good men have their flaws just think about those with their personal designs.
There are so many errors in your assumptions that it is hard to know where to start correcting them! To whom do you think the letters from Paul were sent and who heard the Gospel from those letters being read to them? Restornu, these deceptions regarding the Bible and the Gospel message will send you to a very bad place if you don’t stop traveling that broad road with a wide gate at the end. Frankly, you do not know what the heck you’re asserting over.
NO. Not to Jesus. Lucifer would have been created by Jesus.
How so CB? Jesus was sent to do the will of the Heavenly Father Jesus was tried and tested before he received his eternal body of Flesh and Bone.
Lucifer aka Satan never kept his 1 estate so he will never receive a mortal body let along an eternal one.
Jesus was the only begotten of the Heavenly Father with and earthly mother.
Adam and Eve came in through the terrestrial Kingdom which they were expelled and we were born in the telestial Kingdom.
The tradition of men never taught this stuff but much of it is in the Bible if you know how to recognize it, which the Book of Mormon is like the Urim and Thummim unlocks so many passages.
You say will I was thinking this way I never knew that is what it met. The Lord language is not the world language so many study the Bible like a text book, it is the Lord that teaches and edifies and our spirit bears witness when we hear the truth by spirit of the Lord.
Yeah, just as I thought. In that statement there is absolutely no faith in God to preserve His word for us today. You have nothing to hold one to but fallible man’s words. Your words here are based on carnal man’s words and will end in destruction.
I receive my instruction from the Lord not getting caught up in the Tradition of Men what they have been peddling from the beginning of time.
Man only needs to pray and let the Lord edify truth and where to fine his word
Eph 4
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
“... not getting caught up in the Tradition of Men what they have been peddling from the beginning of time.” Coming from a Mormon who believes the ‘traditions of Joe Smith’ like the fantasy of the Book of Abraham, your comment is actually amusing.
NO. Not to Jesus. Lucifer would have been created by Jesus.
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BTW Our flesh is created but our spirits are eternal they have always existed Our heavenly father gather our spirits and gave us an opportunity to whom we would worship.
I forgot in the other post to include this I said Jesus was tested so if Jesus created Satan why would Satan be tempting the Creator to give Jesus everything?
I know it get complicate for Jesus did form the earth.
Matthew 4
1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
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Well MHGinTN that is your spin and you are entitle to it dear!:)
Most Remarkable Book: Evidences of the Divine Authenticity of the
The Council at Adam-Ondi-Ahman Will be a Day of Judgment for the Righteous
I will keep praying for you, Dear One. Stay warm and safe.
So you’ve been told by your carnal, fallible human deceivers.
>>I forgot in the other post to include this I said Jesus was tested so if Jesus created Satan why would Satan be tempting the Creator to give Jesus everything?<<
Because he thinks he is more than what he really is just like the leaders of the cult you have been following and promoting here.
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>> It wasn’t the first time the reason for each dispensation was because the opposition got the Lord’s playbook and alter it!<<
Don’t be preposterous. The Jews meticulously maintained the scriptures of which there are copies today. If you don’t even believe the Hebrew and Greek copies of scripture we have available to us today are the inspired, infallible words of God you have nothing.
****
I am sorry CB they are not the originals they are copies of copies.
For example when Jesus was discussing with the Pharisees and the Seduces and scribes both sect of the Jewish faith had different points of view on doctrine one believe in the resurrection and angel the other group did not.
So CB you dismiss this!
There was a period that temple was under the influence of the Hellenic philosophy and is why Jesus kick them out of the House of the Lord.
CB You deny this history
They were even arguing with Jesus about the Lord own doctrine, which they had no clue who they were talking too.
So the Pharasee, Suducese, and scribs did not argue with Jesus over doctrine which they between themselves could not agree on let of the Jesus the author, CB you deny this too
They were angry with him he was going to upset a good thing they had going.
We have read in a few places of Deuteronomy 4 and Rev. 22:18-19 Gal 1 isn’t about the LDS in 1800 Jesus was complaining to Paul at the time due to the climate they already Crucified the Lord what is going to stop them from perverting the word.
There were no warnings CB in Deut 4 or Rev 22
Yes the Word of God is inherit but what man does to something on a scroll or written in this kingdom is hard to hold on to.
Even the masses never laid eyes on the written word until the 1500’s
You believe we always has access to the scriptures or you truth those who had them did not tamper with them?
Good men have their flaws just think about those with their personal designs.
BTW just for good measure...
Where are the original manuscripts of the Bible located?
Though we do not have any originals, with such a wealth of documentation at our disposal with which to compare, we can delineate quite closely what those originals contained.
ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS OF THE BIBLE HAVE ALL PERISHED
Here we are back to square one and have to take the word of men will my faith in God edifying me, is a lot different than my relationship with truthing men with this project.
What I do know is that the Book of Mormon is Another witness for Jesus Christ, and testifies to many of the passages in the Bible and clears up the ambiguities, one is not left wondering how to interpret that passage. Because these are records of the Lord for these latter days to set things straight, and removed any stumbling blocks.
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