The Ravenous Wolves of FreeRepublic

The Ravenous Wolves of FreeRepublic
How do we deal with the insults and pain of those whom Christ called "ravenous wolves"?

Many aren't aware of it but the phrase "A wolf in sheep’s clothing" has biblical origins.

Mat 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

The word translated "false prophet" here is not referring to a Godly person who has a prophecy that fails. Instead it's referring to a person who pretends to be a Christian but in reality is not. They are compared to "ravenous wolves" among the flock.

These ravenous wolves exist in life. And they exist here in the religious forum of FreeRepublic. They can be a challenge to our faith and to our Christianity. In this article we're going to examine how to identify these wolves in sheep clothing and how to use our shepard, Jesus Christ, to combat them.

Mat 7:16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

In other words, says Christ, real Christians have a certain, identifiable "fruit". The wolves among the sheep will NOT have these fruits. You can't get grapes from thorns.

Mat 7:17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.

The word translated "bad" means harmful, or evil. Something that is intended to hurt or destroy. So the hallmark of bad fruit is something that is harmful or destructive to people. "Good" on the other hand is something that is beautiful, beneficial, or worthy.

So the mark of a wolf in sheep’s clothing is whether they bear good fruit, or any. In John 15, Christ gives more detail on this fruit.

John 15:4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
John 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

This fruit is something that Christians have. If someone doesn't have Christ they then won't have this fruit.

But what is this fruit? How can we know whether the fruit is good or bad unless we know what it looks like? Luckily the apostle Paul gives us a good idea of what this fruit looks like in the book of Galatians.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

This fruit, these characteristics, are the natural result of living and abiding in Christ, in having his spirit.
Paul sums them up beautifully in 1 Corinthians:

1Co 13:4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
1Co 13:5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
1Co 13:6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
1Co 13:7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

These characteristics apply across all organizations. Organizations do not have a lock on the spirit of God. If someone exhibits these characteristics on a consistent basis they do have the spirit of God and they are a Christian.

There are many people in various organizations on FreeRepublic that exhibit these traits. Many Catholic, LDS, Protestant and Messianic and other members of FreeRepublic exhibit these traits and thus do have the spirit of God and are Christians.

However there are a very few that rarely if ever exhibit these traits. In fact they exhibit something else....the works of the flesh:

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

These behaviors are not just physical but are also spiritual. They are destructive and harmful to themselves and those they come into contact with.

That should not be surprising because the emanate not jut from the flesh, but are demonic in origin. James highlights these works.

James 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.

Note that good behavior and meekness are hallmarks of of wisdom, having the spirit of the Lord. James contrasts that with other behavior.

James 3:14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth.
James 3:15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic.
James 3:16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.

James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.
James 3:18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

So these are the fruits. The ravenous wolves of FreeRepublic generally act like their namesakes....wolf like.

You've seen them. They'll post derogatory things about others and their faith. The purpose isn't to defend their own faith which often is hidden or not evident. . The purpose is to satisfy their hunger for division, acrimony and blood.

Like animals they seem not to know how to behave civility. They can't address others with whom they disagree without snarling, spitting and insulting. They bare their teeth and pretend that their animal nature is noble and Godly.

They justify their animal nature by pretending that they're just like us. They show us their sheepskin but they can't hide their true nature.

Like a wolf pack there is hierarchy and anyone outside of the pack is instantly set upon if one so much as questions the rules of the pack.

Like a wolf pack they howl, or ping others, when they think they've identified a victim. Peter describes their behavior perfectly:

1Pe_5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

That's how the ravenous wolves of FreeRepublic operate. They bait. They hunt down. They attack. They devour and all the while pretend that they're one of us.

How do we deal with these wolves? These impostors? These fake Christians? After all they seem to have the advantage of aggressiveness, viciousness and have no qualms about personally attacking others.

The answer is that "we" can't do anything. We're sheep. We're weak. We're helpless. We don't have the teeth or claws they do.

But we have something else. Something they don't have. We have Christ as our shepherd protecting and guiding us. They can't harm us if we depend on Christ and stay in the flock.

Really all the wolves can do is sit just outside the flock, snarling, biting and snapping at us. And maybe that's why they're bitter and angry. They realize that they're not real sheep. They envy that the sheep have real faith in their shepherd. They wonder why Christ doesn't accept their disguise as being the real thing.

Now certainly we're not perfect sheep. I'm not. Sometimes we take their bait. It's not easy to see other sheep begin attacked or to be attacked. Sometimes we want to snarl back with our little sheep teeth. But it rarely works because to do that we have to leave the side of Christ.

The best strategy is to let Christ take care of them. They're not fooling very many and they're certainly not fooling Jesus. They're interested only in satisfying their hunger. They don't want to debate. When they pretend they are they're really only dangling bait to draw others out where they will be vulnerable and away from the shepherd.

Mat 7:6 "Don't give what is holy to dogs or throw your pearls to pigs. Otherwise, they will trample them and then tear you to pieces.

These ravenous wolves of FreeRepublic have figured out how to manipulate and find the "loopholes" in the forum rules so their rude, crude and unChristian behavior is tolerated. But they're not fooling anyone. A leopard can't hide his spots.

Ultimately they are to be pitied. Clearly they've had experiences in their lives where they've been hurt deeply. They've been betrayed. They've been picked on. They've been abused. So not knowing Christ they do the same to others. They behave like animals as all Christians did before becoming Christians.

But they don't have to. One day God will open up their eyes. He will show them that they are only pretending to be sheep and they will realize their animal nature and be ashamed. And then Christ will show them HOW to become sheep.

Our prayers should be that they will change. That they will bear fruit worthy of repentance. And we should examine ourselves and our attitudes toward them and others. To pray that God gives us the wisdom, kindness and gentleness to deal with those who would use us and spitefully accuse us.

Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 But I tell you this: Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you.
Mat 5:45 In this way you show that you are children of your Father in heaven.

This should be our goal. To let the light of our Father shine through and to glorify him. A tall order to be sure but the only way to stand up to the wolves.

Forgive me for intruding...you did not ping me in this reply but I would like to respond to it.

Like much in the Christian life, this cannot be taught nor is it possible to accomplish. Only God can accomplish it. He said, "Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." He is the one who causes us to bear fruit. It's not a thing we learn or do, but it's something He does through us if we will abide in Him.

As a reminder this was referring to:

Mat 22:37 Jesus said to him, 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like it: 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

You are exactly right that without Christ it is impossible to achieve this. We can't do this on our own.

Elsie seems to disagree with my statement "Doctrine is important, but it's purpose is to teach us how to love God and how to love others."

Doctrine IS teaching. Since Christ summed up the whole of all doctrine of God, the teaching of God, his commandments, as love God and love your neighbor I think my statement is perfectly logical and perfectly valid. What we're learning, through the teaching of God and Christ, is how to let go of our fleshly and carnal desires and to let Christ reign supreme in our thoughts, mind, spirit and life.

Do you have an alternate opinion Elsie?

From the vanity:

"Organizations do not have a lock on the spirit of God. If someone exhibits these characteristics on a consistent basis they do have the spirit of God and they are a Christian. There are many people in various organizations on FreeRepublic that exhibit these traits. Many Catholic, LDS, Protestant and Messianic and other members of FreeRepublic exhibit these traits and thus do have the spirit of God and are Christians."

ALL: Now, since DouglasKC has been associated with the United Church of God, a break-off of Herbert W. Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God...what has Herbert W. Armstrong written that directly counters DouglasKC's claim? [Note ESPECIALLY the underlined portion below]:

"Mr. Armstrong NEVER said you could be outside the Worldwide Church of God, where Christ was working and leading, and still be part of the true Church and Body of Christ. You saw his words many times. He understood that one could become converted outside that Body, because he always knew that some “few names” in Sardis had God’s Spirit—“had not defiled their garments” (Rev. 3:4). However, he knew these WOULD eventually HAVE TO be led to Christ’s Body. You will see this even more plainly a little later."
Source: The True Church: One Organization, or Many?: Chapter Nine

[My note: Please note that Armstrong defined "Christ's body" as HAVING to have a church headquartered in Pasadena...much like the Mormons define the "one and only church" having to be headquartered in Salt Lake City]:

"This is the final time you will hear from Mr. Armstrong. Note well his words. The publication date—1954!—shows how long ago these points were believed by Mr. Armstrong and understood in the WCG. Time has not changed their application. Notice how the word “enemy” and the term “serving the devil” come into use: ... “Either the Church of God with headquarters in Pasadena is the ONE AND ONLY true Body of Christ, thru whom Christ carries on HIS WORK, or else it is deceived, or it is a fraud. There is no other possibility. YOU MUST FACE IT, and DECIDE WHICH ALTERNATIVE IS TRUE. If it is the Body thru whom Christ works in carrying on HIS WORK to the world for this time, then it is THE ONLY BODY that is being used of Christ. Christ is not divided!” [Note how Mr. Armstrong defines Christ not being divided.]"
Source: The True Church: One Organization, or Many?: Chapter Eleven

Here is a further explanation from this same source, in a FAQ format:

"Question 9: If only one organization forms the Church and Body of Christ, what about baptisms taking place in the splinters? Are there instances where these are valid—where there is a genuine conversion occurring?"
The answer comes in a quote from Mr. Armstrong:
“Can one who does not know of the true organized Body doing God’s Work and therefore is outside of it, be a member of the true Church which Christ built? The answer is yes—for it is possible for one to have truly repented, believed, and received God’s Spirit—and be following that Spirit as far as he sees and understands—who does not know of the organized Work Christ is using today. But surely God’s Spirit in him would lead one, in due time, into his part in the organized Body the living Christ is directing. [Reread this sentence until it cannot be forgotten.]"
“Is it possible that one who has joined a sect, church, or denomination NOT doing God’s Work, might be truly converted, and led by God’s Spirit in him?"
"“The answer is YES—I have known of a few. But in EVERY CASE, either they came INTO the organized spiritual organism Christ is using in the real Work of God—or, when their eyes were opened to further light and truth, they rejected it and LOST the Spirit of God. And this was amply demonstrated by the fruits.” [Now reread this.]
Source: The True Church: One Organization, or Many?: Chapter Nine

IoW Herbert W. Armstrong taught that "Yes," people can be converted or gain access to the Holy Spirit outside of Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God headquartered in Pasadena; but if you were to remain "you would HAVE to eventually be led" to Armstrong's church -- or elsewise, without any exception Armstrong saw, you would "lose the spirit of God."

Armstrong assured that this was "surely so."

Now...if Douglas disagrees with Herbert W. Armstrong on this subject, well glory be! To a degree, that would be a great thing!

But IF he does, does the UCG know that a certain "Douglas" in KC may depart from HWA on this subject matter? And are "the splinters" aware of this?

To be honest, the tithe thing bothers me more than the Sabbath. In the case of the Sabbath, there are passages of Scripture that one can take to understand to annul the Sabbaths and Feasts of the Torah. While I don't agree with the approach and think it misses the point, I do acknowledge that there is a reason that the Apostles didn't emphasize Sabbath-observance for the Gentile Christians. It's an area where honest and dilligent disciples of the Messiah can disagree.

The tithe, on the other hand, requires ignoring the hermeneutic that rejects the Feasts. Anyone who claims to be in a position to teach the word would have to be aware of this, and yet the tithe continues to be taught. Why? Frankly, because it's good buisiness--which means there's an ulterior motive in getting this wrong.

I'm not saying that every pastor who teaches the tithe is being dishonest. Most are just teaching as they've been taught. But if they do suddenly notice that the Scripture doesn't support them, they definitely have a motive to ignore it, don't they? I think quite a few do know, and they continue to teach the tithe anyway. And I wouldn't want to be in their shoes come judgment day.

Shalom

IoW Herbert W. Armstrong taught that "Yes," people can be converted or gain access to the Holy Spirit outside of Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God headquartered in Pasadena; but if you were to remain "you would HAVE to eventually be led" to Armstrong's church -- or elsewise, without any exception Armstrong saw, you would "lose the spirit of God."
Armstrong assured that this was "surely so." Now...if Douglas disagrees with Herbert W. Armstrong on this subject, well glory be! To a degree, that would be a great thing!

But IF he does, does the UCG know that a certain "Douglas" in KC may depart from HWA on this subject matter? And are "the splinters" aware of this?

Hello Colorfornian. I'll answer to this satisfy your apparent curiosity.

Providing these are accurate and not out of context posts then of course I disagree with the assertions.

Belonging to Worldwide Church of God, the Presbyterian church or any other religious organization has nothing to do with our salvation. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Salvation is through Christ. (Romans 6:23,1 John 5:12, John 10:9) ).

To teach that belonging or not belonging to a certain organization will make one gain or lose the spirit of God is of course a non-biblical heresy.

I have no idea what the other organizations you reference believe specifically since I'm not or have never been a member of any of them, including Worldwide nor have I studied them to any great degree.

I am well aware of what United Church of God teaches on it...the corporate church teaches and affirms what I just stated though not in as harsh terms as I just used. In other words, they teach what is biblical and thus what I believe.

Take care and may God pour out his blessings on you.

I don’t teach the tithe. I teach that the tithe preceded the law,

I have no problem with that, but i see that Jesus spoke in the past tense, meaning that we no longer live under the old law.

Regardless of who were the first to give tithes which in this case was Abraham it was under the law of Moses that the Levite priest hood were the only ones given the authority to collect tithes.

And did these tithes go to the local synagogs? ( don,t know if that is spelled correct ).

I believe they went to the store houses of Israel, which was built in the temple and and was to start with the Government.

The temple of God is within us under the new covenant.

1 peter 2
4
As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him—

5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood.

The priesthood collected tithes under the old law but under the new covenant we who believe in Christ are the priesthood.

A tithe is ten percent but we pay the government much more than that.

But the bible tells us that when we do alms not to let the left hand know what the right hand does, we can give a hundred percent if we want but what ever we give we are not to account for , or keep track of.

So yes i think it is a fine thing to give to your Church, but as i heard a preacher say, it is just as much a preachers job to give to some one else that it is some one else always giving to the preacher.

The preacher i have in mind does not believe in collection of tithes and also like Paul supports himself and his family
by holding down a job or running a business and so does all of the other preachers in this particular denomination.

And believe it or not they will leave their job to help some one who needs them, church member or not.

Thank you for your response, and your clarification.

Next question: You mention "salvation"...but was unclear what you think "salvation" results in given the following assertion from Dr. Rod Meredith as to what "salvation" is per Armstrong & the doctrine passed down from Armstrong to groups like the LCoG and UCG:

Similarly, Aaron Dean, personal assistant to HWA, notes: “HWA knew we were to judge angels so we must be somewhere between them and God. Then he began looking at scriptures that kept saying Christ our elder brother, and seeing him as He is because we will be like Him; and Christ the first of the first fruits; and the concept of Family and Oneness. At first he thought it might be blasphemy to think we could become God beings, but scripture seemed to indicate this. He told students in class about it, and asked them to look for any scriptures that disagreed, since that would end it. They didn't and in fact all agreed. So it became a teaching in the church. HWA did not borrow the doctrine from another group.” (e-mail 25 April 2003)"
Source: page 7 of 'A Note on Some Connections Between the Old Worldwide Church of God and the Latter-Day Saints (Mormons)

IoW, Douglas, do you believe we our "saved" in order to become "God beings?"

IoW, Douglas, do you believe we our "saved" in order to become "God beings?"

Scripture teaches very clearly why we are saved...because God loves us:

Jhn 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

That is my belief of "why" God saves us.

I can't read minds so I have no idea what is meant by "God beings" in your mind or anyone else's. And again I have no idea what context you're quoting or whether or not this is an accurate and true quotation. There's no way to tell.

But I suspect your question might better have been stated as "For what purpose has God created man and what are we to him?"

What we are and will be after we're saved is crystal clear and mentioned numerous times in scripture:

Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
Rom 8:17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

Paul says this this what we are.

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
Jhn 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John agrees.

Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.

Jesus agrees.

Luk 20:35 “But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
Luk 20:36 “nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

So it's clear that we are sons of God in one sense, but we are to become sons of God in another sense.

Paul goes on in his description of Christians:

Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Whatever we are is to be full of glory.

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

And the whole creation is waiting for this moment.

In John 3:

1Jo 3:1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God!Therefore the world does not know us,because it did not know Him.
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

John says that as children of God it's not yet clear what we will be, what our form will be, but he knows our form will be like him.

That word translated "like" is interesting and instructive...the same word is used in the LXX for "comparable" in Genesis 2:20:

Genesis 2:20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.

This verse indicates a same "type" of companion. There was not a another "person", Adam was alone.

So to make a long story short God created us to be his children sons and daughters of God. Scripture doesn't say what exactly we will be like. But scripture says we will be like him and it will be glorious.

I can speculate on this and draw a pretty firm conclusion, based on scripture, that we are to be literal children of God. Not God, but his children, part of his family. We inherit his kingdom...or everything:

Rev 21:7 “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

I hope that helps.

DouglasKC wrote: “Belonging to Worldwide Church of God, the Presbyterian church or any other religious organization has nothing to do with our salvation.”

Colofornian replied: “Thank you for your response, and your clarification.”

More like an obfuscation, as it is quite clear that, without the laying on of hands by ministers of the UCG, and baptism by them, as well as obedience to God’s alleged government, you are not going to be saved in Christ, at least in THIS lifetime, if you believe the UCG anyway. He might be referring to a particular spin. And that is, if you are sufficiently ignorant of UCG doctrine, you can still be saved in the second resurrection, provided you convert THEN.

From the UCG website:

“Is there any time in mankind’s history or future more fascinating than the second resurrection? What will it be like to meet a 900 year old man? Imagine people from every time and place rising simultaneously?... For us the real question is what will it be like to teach them? This is their chance, how will you assist them in coming to conversion?”

http://www.ucg.org/doctrinal-beliefs/what-will-teaching-gods-way-be-second-resurrection/

Again, in an article titled “Hope for Unbelieving Loved Ones”

“I was glad to be able to give this truthful and comforting message during my father’s funeral. Because it is a comfort to know the truth of God. God is “not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance” and receive eternal life. His marvelous plan includes my father and billions of others who did not believe during their lives. What an awesome future God has prepared for His creation, mankind!”

http://www.ucg.org/doctrinal-beliefs/hope-unbelieving-loved-ones/

This next article would seem to contradict the previous one, as it seems, to normal people anyway, to state that this ‘first chance of salvation’ is only for those who were absolutely ignorant of the Gospel. Note carefully the wording in the following paragraph from this link:

“Is there hope for the unbelieving person who rejected God’s calling and spurned His way of life? No, a person who has knowingly refused God’s calling and the way of life He reveals has only the lake of fire to look forward to, which will end his or her existence for eternity (Hebrews 6:4-6; Hebrews 10:26-29). However, there is another type of unbeliever—one who never had the opportunity to choose or reject God’s way of life. Many sincere people believe that we must “accept Jesus” in this life or we are lost forever. But what about the billions of people who have lived out their lives without ever hearing the name of Christ and therefore had no chance at salvation (Acts 4:12
)? Is it fair for God to destroy them forever when they never really had an opportunity to understand His truth?
Many know that God will resurrect the saints at Christ’s return (1 Thessalonians 4:16; 1 Corinthians 15:52
), but most read right over Christ’s teachings about a second resurrection. He spoke of people from different ages coming face-to-face in “the day of judgment” (Matthew 11:20-24 Matthew 12:41-42; Luke 10:12-15... A second resurrection allows a first chance at salvation”

http://www.ucg.org/bible-faq/will-everyone-have-chance-salvation-what-happens-after-death-resurrection-judgment-day

Note, someone who has “knowingly” rejected God’s “Calling” and “Way of life.” IOW, the way of life of the UCG, which includes following the feast days. As Douglas puts it in his profile: “We are committed followers of Christ and worship and rest on the same day that he did, the 7th day. We also keep God’s festivals just as Christ did when he was made flesh...Passover, Days of Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles and the Last Great Day.”

This “way of life” also includes keeping the Mosaic dietary laws, and submitting to the UCG church government.

But, “knowingly rejected” must be a hard to define phrase, as it appears that the other fellow’s Atheist father, and presumably all the Non-Ravenous Freepers, who have heard the UCG message but have not converted, will be getting their second chance despite having heard of the name of Christ.

In either case, there’s lots of details Douglas seems to be determined to leave out.

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