Posted on 12/23/2013 7:16:44 PM PST by Uri’el-2012
Why I believe the Rapture of the Church
will take place between December 25, 2013,
and January 4, 2014
The Lord has been giving me pieces to a puzzle for the last 13 years, leading me to the date for the firstfruits Rapture of the Church. The puzzle ends between December 25, 2013, and January 4, 2014. I very strongly believe that the Rapture will take place on January 3/4, 2014. However, it is possible that the puzzle can end as early as December 25, 2013.
Actually, there are 3.5 years left unfulfilled, as you say. Jesus' ministry was 3.5 years, and he was "cut off", which resulted in the end to sacrifice.
I have been told several times that I did not understand prophecy, and needed to read so-and-so's book, to explain it to me. When I pointed out the plain scriptures in the NT regarding the gathering together and the resurrection, I was told that they don't mean what they say, rather, they have to be "understood" in light of dispensational teaching from Darby, Scofield, et al.
I will never convince you of the validity of scripture, so all I can can do is urge you too read all the NT passages relating to the resurrection, and realize how EVRY ONE has to be explained in a way that contradicts the plain reading of the text. To wit:
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
I have been told that Jesus did not mean the LAST day of human history, but rather, the last day of the church on earth. Jesus mentions it 5 times without this "clarification".
2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
After the warning to not be deceived, we are told that the gathering will not occur until these 2 preceeding events. However, I have been told repeatedly that the rapture is "imminent".
1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I have been corrected that this is not the last trum of the 7 in Revelation, but rather the last sound of the trumpet call for the rapture. Those in the know refer to Matthes 24:31. But this is even more problematic when looking at Matt 24:29, below.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days
I have been corrected that this is all written to the Jews, as evidenced by the term "elect" in verse 31. The word "eklektos" is used 16 times in the NT. 1 time for Jesus, 1 time for the Angels, and 7 times that clearly refers to the Church. The remaining 7 times are non-descript, and could refer to the Church or to Israel. However, there are NO clear references to Israel as Elect in the NT.
In any case, the pre-trib position must reserve these and many other NT scriptures, and re-explain them in light of the pre-trib position, a teaching for which there is NOT A SINGLE SCRIPTURE reference that clearly explains the doctrine. Please correct me on this mis-statement. Reference and show the verse in our correction, don't just declare I am wrong and ignorant of prophecy.
CB> Amen and Amen! Come quickly Lord Jesus!
Consider this:
Rev 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
and this
Rev 21:9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.
According to scripture, the bride of Christ is the city, New Jerusalem, not the church.
It is not to be taken as literal. YHvH is not in love with a city. All throughout the WORD, YHvH has used marriage The use of the word "as" defines a metaphor.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
as a metaphor for the outward sign of His love for us(as His Bride).
I concur on the metaphor assertion, especially since we are referred to as the Body of Christ (8x!, Eph 4:12, Rom 12:5, 1 Cor 12:27, et al).
Scripture is rich in meaning!
>> “When did God reign down His wrath on Sodom and Gomorrah? After His faithful followers were out of the destruction zone right?” <<
.
Right!
And Yeshua told us it would be After Satan’s wrath, at the last trump, when he removes his elect before the beginning of his ten days of wrath between Yom Teruah, and Yom Kippur.
The bride of Yeshua is the very same one he divorced millennia ago, and is now permitted under Torah to re-mary because the prohibition was nullified by his death.
This nullification by death is the “Mystery” to which Paul referred.
>> “That wasn’t God’s wrath. God simply allowed Satan to torment and attack Job.” <<
.
Correctamundo! - Just as he will allow Satan to torment us during the trib. - And we will collect our reward, just as Job did.
Interesting perspective, I will have to study on that one.
Veeeery interesting!
I know but sometimes I can’t resist stirring the pot. Hope you had a great Christmas.
If you stay within the Book of Revelation, you will read parts that speak of tribulation and read different parts that speak of His wrath. Two different things. BTW, the prophecy in Revelation may or may not be in linear time.
The two witnesses stump me. Actual persons? The Old and New Testaments?
Um, No. There are seven years left unfulfilled as I said. When Jesus was “cut off” there were still seven years left of he 490 year prophecy.
Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
After Jesus was crucified Satan’s people destroyed the city of Jerusalem. Then Satan will “confirm a covenant” for one week. That week has not yet happened.
>> I have been told several times that I did not understand prophecy, and needed to read so-and-so's book, to explain it to me.<<
Yeah so? Muslims tell us to read something other than scripture to “explain” also. You seem to use that “people have told me” meme rather often. It seems to me you have simply chosen to listen to a different “people” to come to the conclusion you have because it certainly doesn’t line up with what scripture teaches.
>> I will never convince you of the validity of scripture<<
Who do you think you are trying to snowball here? Scripture is all that I use as they are the ONLY valid source. Please don’t use that Catholic and Liberal tactic on me.
>> I have been told that Jesus did not mean the LAST day of human history, but rather, the last day of the church on earth. Jesus mentions it 5 times without this "clarification".<<
There you go with that “I have been told” stuff again. You used John 6:39 as your “example” to try to insinuate that somehow that relates to the “church”. Where did you get that? What had Jesus been “given”? What was His birth right? Wasn’t it to be “King of the Jews”? When has He been the earthly “King of the Jews”? Jesus hasn’t yet been “given” all that the Father gave Him. It will be raised up “again in the last day”. That’s when the restored nation of Israel will repent and accept Him as their messiah and He will then reign as “King of the Jews” for 1000 years. You trying to insert into that verse that it means the “church” doesn’t make it so. Show me from scripture where that means the “church” and the “church” only is what Jesus was “given” if that’s what you believe.
>>After the warning to not be deceived, we are told that the gathering will not occur until these 2 preceeding events. However, I have been told repeatedly that the rapture is "imminent".
ARGGGH! There’s that “I have been told” again. What “gathering” will not occur until “these 2 preceding events? You quote 2 Thess 2:3. Are you trying to tell me that’s the gathering of the church? By what proof text?
2 Thessalonians 2:3 is talking about end of the tribulation. That is evident by the phrase “that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition”. That’s the antichrist.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The antichrist has not been revealed to this point. Neither has he set himself up in the temple. Then we have to determine WHAT day will not come. The previous chapter tells us that. It starts in verse 6 of chapter 1. “Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;”. That verse begins talking about what is going to happen to those who “trouble you”. It goes on to say how God will take vengeance on the unbelievers.
So far the passages you used have no relationship to what is going to happen to the “church”. Now we need to find out what has to happen in order for the antichrist to be “revealed” don’t we? If we read on in 2 Thessalonians 2 we find out.
2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
So now you have to answer the question; “what is “taken out of the way” before “that Wicked” to be revealed?
Please don’t use that last sentence tactic when putting my name in the ping list. If you insist on including in your post please do not put my name in the ping list. I rebuke the error it implies.
I rebuke the error in that last sentence of your post.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people...
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks...
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off...
24 - 70 weeks allotted
25 - 7+62 = 69 weeks from order to rebuild to Messiah
26 - AFTER 62 weeks, Messiah is cut off.
Questions:
1. Did the clock resume counting at the appearance of Messiah? If not, why not?
2. Did Messiah confirm the Covenant
(see Matthew 26:28 This is my blood of theb covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. - or- Luke 22:20 ...This cup is the New Covenant in my blood -or- Romans 11:27 -or- Hebrews 13:20)
Please provide 1 verse that even suggests Satan or the Antichrist confirms or makes a covenant with Israel.
John 6:35 "...whoever believes in me will never be thirsty..."
John 6:40 "...For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
John 6:47 "...Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life."
Are you suggesting this sermon from Jesus does not relate to the church? On what authority. Show me anywhere in this context that is does not relate to all believers.
Next, you will be suggesting that John 3:16 is for the Jews only, since Jesus was talking to a Pharisee.
Do you not see how you have to twist the scripture to fit your theory? That is precisely why I abandoned it years ago. The pre-trib rapture is un-scriptural!
There is NOTHING in this text to suggest it is anything other than the rapture, especially since this letter was written to "...the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ..." (2 Thes 1:1)
Keeping 2 Thessalonians in context,
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
When is our gathering to the Lord? Accoring to this passage, it is synonymous with "The Day of the Lord". Next, this day won't come until the man of lawlessness is revealed.
Once more, you twist the scriptures to fit your theory. The only evidence you can produce is that is does not fit your theory, so it can't be the church who is gathered, as evidenced by your statement
QUOTE: "...So far the passages you used have no relationship to what is going to happen to the “church”. "
Show ANYTHING in the context that remotely suggests this is not the church Paul is referring to!
Michael, obviously.
Daniel 12:1 "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.
Why would it start at the appearance of the Messiah. There is not multiple of a seven year period from the birth of the Messiah. The clock stopped at Jesus crucifixion to be started again at the signing of the “covenant” by the antichrist with Israel.
>>Did Messiah confirm the Covenant<<
Say what? Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: (Jesus has now been “cut off”, crucified without having the totality of the promise of being King of the Jews yet fulfilled.) and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Now who will “confirm the covenant”? The prince who used the Romans to destroy the city.
>> Please provide 1 verse that even suggests Satan or the Antichrist confirms or makes a covenant with Israel.<<
I just did.
There you go asking more question but refusing to answer mine. What’s up with that? It’s a tactic that those who try to inject into scripture something that isn’t there or misappropriate texts use. If you can’t answer those questions just admit it. I won’t answer any more of yours until you do one or the other.
See post 259.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.