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To: StormPrepper
Was it that understanding that lead "Christianity" to murder people by the millions over what they got out of their "Bibles"?

Nope...they were just as wrong and misled as your Brigham Young followers were at the Mountain Meadows Massacre. (I warned you before about throwing those stones from glass houses.)

The followers of God have always gone to a prophet for understanding and clarification of scripture. "Christianity" has no prophets. Which is why they can't agree on something as simple as baptism.

God SPOKE to His people through prophets and they WROTE down their revelation in a form that could be preserved long after the prophets had all died. Sacred Scripture is part of God's plan and the Holy Spirit leads His own into all truth. We don't need a "prophet" today to tell us what Scripture means because we HAVE the Holy Spirit. Disagreements over certain issues doesn't mean that what God gave us is insufficient, just that some people want to hold onto their own understanding and won't yield to God's leading. It doesn't mean the truth isn't there waiting for them. But there are some points where there is liberty and not everything is cut and dried for every person. On the MAJOR things - the tenets that comprise what Christianity IS - there is a genuine unity, even across denominational lines.

And I'm supposed to believe their private scripture interpretations have some special truth? It's no different than the religious people at the time of Jesus. They studied their scriptures but couldn't see that Jesus was the Christ even though He was standing right in front of them. They didn't consult the prophets or God.

Scripture interprets Scripture. Words, in context, mean what they say - these are general rules for Biblical Hermeneutics, the process of Biblical interpretation.

Actually, it was a clear and straightforward answer that included Holy Scripture. I know it and, if you don't, you alone can figure out the implications for why you can't or won't."

I won't because that teaching is wrong. Teach a correct principle and I'll agree with you.

You will have to use the Bible to convince me that I am wrong and you are right about Jesus and His intrinsic sinlessness. I reject the Mormon version of the Bible as well as your other "scripture". You claim to believe the Bible, I believe the Bible, let's discuss the point using only the Bible since we can both agree with its authority, deal?

"Nowhere in the Bible can you point to that says this."

I get this from the prophets. However, it's all over the Bible. It's pretty simple actually. It makes sense that God's people know Him. He's not a mystery to Latter-day Saints because He's revealed the truth to us.

See above. Your "prophets" as well as your "revealed truth" are unacceptable in authority to me and I stand by my assertion that you will find NO PLACE in the Bible where God the Father had a flesh and bone body or was once a man.

"Now He does. But prior to his incarnation, he didn't."

True. We can agree on something. Now, does a child grow up to be like their parent?

Sometimes, but not always. Jesus, the man, was ALWAYS God and he took on human flesh to be our redeemer.

"Jesus was sinless from all eternity, having a human nature did not remove that part of his attributes. The difference between us and Jesus is that we cannot be sinless, we have all sinned and fall short of God's perfection"

Here's where we part. How could Jesus be tempted if He didn't have the choice to choose good or evil? Being a "son of the morning", being a person of authority in heaven, being in the very presence of God the Father didn't remove Lucifer's agency to choose.

Jesus and Lucifer are not "brothers". Lucifer was a created being, an angel, who chose to rebel against God and was cast out of heaven. Jesus is the eternal Son of God, with the Father from all time, and His sinlessness was because of His Divine nature. I can show you these teachings all throughout Scripture (and I have). If you reject them, it is on your own head.

Jesus had the choice, He never would have, but He did have the choice to choose evil. This is why God the Father spoke out of Heaven when Jesus was baptized, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." He was pleased because Jesus was following the commandments perfectly. (Of course to testify publicly that this was His Son also)

Why do you say "he never would have" chosen evil? If you really believe he had a choice - the same choice you say WE have - then explain why you said that?

"Yes, he did because he was GOD"

He lead a sinless life because He chose to. There is a lot more to it than that...but I'm not going to go there at this time. Being part God gave Him the power over death. To die only when He choose to. When He bled at every pour in Gethsemane, it would have killed a mortal man. Being scourged and stabbed and hung on the cross would have killed a mortal man... but Jesus didn't die until He chose to, after He has finished His final task on the cross.

He led a sinless life because he was/is Almighty God incarnate. He suffered, bled and died for our sins at the cross and then arose for our justification. Jesus said, "No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Father has commanded." (John 10:18)

"The two witnesses during the Tribulation will not be speaking to me - though I already believe what they will be saying - as I will already have been taken up in the Rapture."

Begs the question, what are two righteous men doing on the earth if the rapture has already happened?

They are the two witnesses sent by God to preach the gospel to those who were left behind after the Rapture and to the Jews especially during the Tribulation. They will warn the entire world of the coming great and terrible day of the Lord when God will judge the world.

No, that's another heresy of modern "Christianity". Well I should say part of "Christianity". There's a side that disagrees with that as well. If you survive the destruction that's going on, you'll be here.

I don't deny there is disagreement about the Rapture, but I guess we'll see who is right when it happens. If you are a believer in Jesus Christ as Savior then you will still be taken up whether or not you believe in a Rapture. The Bride of Christ is not going to endure the Tribulation - the time of "Jacob's Trouble" (see Jeremiah 30). We will be with the Bridegroom (Christ) at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

These two prophets have stood before God. They speak the truth directly from God. What if, they teach the law of baptism, in a way that God wants it. In a way that you can't verify in your Bible. By what you've said already, you'll discredit them immediately.

They will be preaching Jesus the Messiah and the Gospel of the grace of God and His coming terrible judgment upon the whole earth for the wickedness and abominations of its inhabitants. I have no fear of what these witnesses will say because I am already a blood-bought, born again child of Almighty God, heir and joint-heir with Jesus Christ. There is nothing that I believe that can't be verified in the word of God. It sounds as if it will be you and your fellow Mormons will be the ones facing God and explaining in to Him why you rejected the truth He gave you.

Will you come on this forum and blast them as false prophets?

Nope! Won't be here. Won't need to.

188 posted on 12/05/2013 8:47:22 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
I just love the smell of brimstone in the morning!



189 posted on 12/06/2013 4:50:12 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: boatbums
"Nope...they were just as wrong and misled as your Brigham Young followers were at the Mountain Meadows Massacre. (I warned you before about throwing those stones from glass houses.)"

You're throwing lent balls. There's no comparison. MMM a single event and was not caused by religious bias. Nor was it sanctioned by the Church. "Christianity" however has 1800 yrs of blood on it's hands. Wars and inquisitions all in the name of God.

My spouse is a direct descendent of Bishop David Evans who was gunned down in his field by a mob which included three protestant ministers at Haun's Mill.

"We don't need a "prophet" today to tell us what Scripture means because we HAVE the Holy Spirit."

The Holy Spirit testifies of truth and can teach, true. But, who are you to say you don't need a prophet? God sends His servants and you reject them outright because you have your Bible?

John 5:39
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


The scriptures only get you so far. It's the servants of God that have the authority to act in His name.

Luke 13:
34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!


The Lord didn't send a herd of Bibles in to try to recover Jerusalem. He sent prophets.

Luke 13: 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.


These people the Lord is referring to, call Him Lord. They are believers and He casts them out at the judgement. Notice it doesn't say anything about a Bible or scriptures as the reason they will be cast out. The cause of their weeping and gnashing of teeth is seeing all the prophets. The ones they rejected.

"But there are some points where there is liberty and not everything is cut and dried for every person. On the MAJOR things - the tenets that comprise what Christianity IS - there is a genuine unity, even across denominational lines."

A false doctrine is a false doctrine. A couple centuries ago people were being slaughtered by the tens of thousands, tortured to death, over infant baptism. The only reason they stopped killing each other was because genocide became unpopular.

-Continued
190 posted on 12/06/2013 12:56:41 PM PST by StormPrepper
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To: boatbums
-Continuation of the previous post

You will have to use the Bible to convince me that I am wrong and you are right about Jesus and His intrinsic sinlessness. I reject the Mormon version of the Bible as well as your other "scripture". You claim to believe the Bible, I believe the Bible, let's discuss the point using only the Bible since we can both agree with its authority, deal?

The Bible will never convince you of anything. We can discuss it till we're blue in the face. But only a sincere prayer to our Heavenly Father asking for truth will either one of us be convinced of anything.

"See above. Your "prophets" as well as your "revealed truth" are unacceptable in authority to me and I stand by my assertion that you will find NO PLACE in the Bible where God the Father had a flesh and bone body or was once a man.

1. We are made in the image of God. So, in shape we look like God.
2. John 5:19
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.


So the Son is only doing what He's seen His Father do first. You mean like take His body up on the third day and ascend into heaven?

3. Acts 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

When Stephen looked into heaven and saw God, he saw a person. Jesus was standing at His right hand.
4. John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

God has a shape. Those who do not accept Jesus will not see or hear His Father.

5. John 14: he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Jesus looks like His Father. The same would be true after the resurrection. Stephen testified that he saw Jesus standing the right hand of Heavenly Father.

-continued
191 posted on 12/06/2013 1:58:13 PM PST by StormPrepper
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To: boatbums
"Begs the question, what are two righteous men doing on the earth if the rapture has already happened?

They are the two witnesses sent by God to preach the gospel to those who were left behind after the Rapture and to the Jews especially during the Tribulation. They will warn the entire world of the coming great and terrible day of the Lord when God will judge the world."


This doesn't make any sense at all. None. According to you the rapture has already happened, what possible good could preaching to these people make? None. So that can't be right. Prophets don't speak to the already damned. Prophets are sent to lead people to Christ, not to rub it in the face of the judged.

Those prophets are here to teach people before the second coming.

"Jesus and Lucifer are not "brothers". Lucifer was a created being, an angel, who chose to rebel against God and was cast out of heaven. Jesus is the eternal Son of God, with the Father from all time,"

Angels are people. Different titles, different responsibilities. But people. Jesus said His Father was also our Father. We share the same Father. Jesus is our brother and our God. Lucifer is no longer with us. At one time he was our brother too. Just as all the people that have ever lived, are alive, and will live on this earth are brothers/sisters.

"I have no fear of what these witnesses will say because I am already a blood-bought, born again child of Almighty God, heir and joint-heir with Jesus Christ."

Sorry, but you're not. Neither am I. -yet. Jesus was very clear on this. You have to endure to the end of your life obeying His commandments before you can be saved.

1. You don't believe He has the power to bring about more scripture for you.
2. You don't believe He will send you His prophets.
3. You don't believe He will bring new revelation for you.
4. You don't believe He has the power to judge you as you have already proclaimed yourself saved.

In other words:
2 Tim 3:
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.


1. I am waiting for even more scripture that was promised.
2. I know His prophets and listen intently to their message.
3. I know that He will send me revelation directly from Him as I need it because I ask for it.
4. I know that God is a God of miracles even today.
5. I know that Luke 13 does not pertain to me, because I will not be weeping at seeing the prophets at the judgment.

born again child of Almighty God, heir and joint-heir with Jesus Christ.

So you're a joint-heir with Almighty God? You will receive and equal reward as Jesus Himself. That's what joint-heir means. That means you'll become a (g)od. Well, that's the promise that God made, for the servant to receive equal to the master. Congrats on agreeing with me on that one. However, we're along way from getting to that point yet.
193 posted on 12/06/2013 2:35:20 PM PST by StormPrepper
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