Posted on 08/15/2013 7:03:11 PM PDT by annalex
Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:
Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)
What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:
Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)
The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source |
Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.
Ya know; we read about Jericho in the Bible, and Lo! and behold, some folks dug deep into the earth and found it!
In the BoM (chapter 6 of MORMON) we read of a fantastic battle; with THOUSANDS dead. With all of their equipment and arms and bones - sinking back into the earth.
You can see these things in the LDS Historical Museum in the basement of the Temple in SLC.
But not THIS!!
The Nephites gather to the land of Cumorah for the final battlesMormon hides the sacred records in the hill CumorahThe Lamanites are victorious, and the Nephite nation is destroyedHundreds of thousands are slain with the sword. About A.D. 385.
1 And now I finish my record concerning the destruction of my people, the Nephites. And it came to pass that we did march forth before the Lamanites.
2 And I, Mormon, wrote an epistle unto the king of the Lamanites, and desired of him that he would grant unto us that we might gather together our people unto the land of Cumorah, by a hill which was called Cumorah, and there we could give them battle.
3 And it came to pass that the king of the Lamanites did grant unto me the thing which I desired.
4 And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.
5 And *when three hundred and eighty and four years had passed away, we had gathered in all the remainder of our people unto the land of Cumorah.
6 And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.
7 And it came to pass that my people, with their wives and their children, did now behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them.
8 And it came to pass that they came to battle against us, and every soul was filled with terror because of the greatness of their numbers.
9 And it came to pass that they did fall upon my people with the sword, and with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the ax, and with all manner of weapons of war.
10 And it came to pass that my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with me, and I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not put an end to my life.
11And when they had gone through and hewn down all my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me.
12 And we also beheld the ten thousand of my people who were led by my son Moroni.
13 And behold, the ten thousand of Gidgiddonah had fallen, and he also in the midst.
14 And Lamah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Gilgal had fallen with his ten thousand; and Limhah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Jeneum had fallen with his ten thousand; and Cumenihah, and Moronihah, and Antionum, and Shiblom, and Shem, and Josh, had fallen with their ten thousand each.
15 And it came to pass that there were ten more who did fall by the sword, with their ten thousand each; yea, even all my people, save it were those twenty and four who were with me, and also a few who had escaped into the south countries, and a few who had deserted over unto the Lamanites, had fallen; and their flesh, and bones, and blood lay upon the face of the earth, being left by the hands of those who slew them to molder upon the land, and to crumble and to return to their mother earth.
16 And my soul was rent with anguish, because of the slain of my people, and I cried:
17 O ye fair ones, how could ye have departed from the ways of the Lord! O ye fair ones, how could ye have rejected that Jesus, who stood with open arms to receive you!
18 Behold, if ye had not done this, ye would not have fallen. But behold, ye are fallen, and I mourn your loss.
19 O ye fair sons and daughters, ye fathers and mothers, ye husbands and wives, ye fair ones, how is it that ye could have fallen!
20 But behold, ye are gone, and my sorrows cannot bring your return.
21 And the day soon cometh that your mortal must put on immortality, and these bodies which are now moldering in corruption must soon become incorruptible bodies; and then ye must stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, to be judged according to your works; and if it so be that ye are righteous, then are ye blessed with your fathers who have gone before you.
22 O that ye had repented before this great destruction had come upon you. But behold, ye are gone, and the Father, yea, the Eternal Father of heaven, knoweth your state; and he doeth with you according to his justice and mercy.
Hmmm...
That sounds kinda like The Maccabean Revolt...
This was a very good post I’ve been meaning to save it for reference. I hope to remember tonight.
...as far as it is translated correctly...
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/91?lang=eng
While Noah Webster, just a few years after producing his famous Dictionary of the English Language, would produce his own modern translation of the English Bible in 1833; the public remained too loyal to the King James Version for Websters version to have much impact. It was not really until the 1880s that Englands own planned replacement for their King James Bible, the English Revised Version(E.R.V.) would become the first English language Bible to gain popular acceptance as a post-King James Version modern-English Bible. The widespread popularity of this modern-English translation brought with it another curious characteristic: the absence of the 14 Apocryphal books.
Up until the 1880s every Protestant Bible (not just Catholic Bibles) had 80 books, not 66!
The inter-testamental books written hundreds of years before Christ called The Apocrypha were part of virtually every printing of the Tyndale-Matthews Bible, the Great Bible, the Bishops Bible, the Protestant Geneva Bible, and the King James Bible until their removal in the 1880s!
The original 1611 King James contained the Apocrypha, and King James threatened anyone who dared to print the Bible without the Apocrypha with heavy fines and a year in jail. Only for the last 120 years has the Protestant Church rejected these books, and removed them from their Bibles. This has left most modern-day Christians believing the popular myth that there is something Roman Catholic about the Apocrypha. There is, however, no truth in that myth, and no widely-accepted reason for the removal of the Apocrypha in the 1880s has ever been officially issued by a mainline Protestant denomination.
That Luther sure did a POOR job of removing stuff; didn’t he!
You guys might want to see a sample of JS' translating ability; right??
Color coding explanation:
Added stuff... Changed stuff... Rearranged stuff... Removed stuff...
*(UNDERLINED stuff is the DISTRACTING reference on every tenth word or so that infuses LDS 'scripture' online.)
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Wow this is amazing.
Your post here is almost EXACTLY the Homily our priest gave at the Mass for the Assumption. The same point almost word for word, about Mary not telling Jesus what to do and also, that Jesus didnt say to her “mother this isn’t my time” rather “woman this is t my time” or else he would have broken the commandment to honor thy father and mother. All of that is exactly what the preist said. It’s like you were there!
Granted he (the priest) didnt say anything about Mary keeping a low profile, so that’s one area you two aren’t exactly the same. He (the priest) also said that while Mary didnt tell Jesus what to do, and rather went to the head waiter, to tell the head waiter to do whatever Jesus would tell him, that showed she had complete confidence he would do what she asked anyway.
It was a good Homily. And again, I’m shocked how both your words are so similar.
I’m taking this as God trying to tell me something that I should notice. I’m going to have to pray about this to try to discern what’s going on.
Thanks,
He wrote the whole of it, as last I heard.
what you say Paul said and what he DID say and mean is different
I posted what he said in 362. I did not insert any interpretation contrary to what he said; I commented on the literal meaning. The word in question is τα υστερηματα. It is plural of ὑστέρημα: "deficiency, need, want". The objection was to something that I said earlier and the objection was "Is there any insufficiency in Christ, from accessibility to ability to relate to man and make intercession for him, that would warrant praying to others in Heaven?" (296) My response was in 307 and it was, on that matter
While Christ is the sole source of salvation, the believer must apply his Redemption to his unique circumstance in life. See, for example, Col 1:24 where Paul speaks of such "insufficiency"
Daniel in response to that said it was "wrestling scripture" (348). How is quoting the original and consulting a dictionary "wrestling" or "false interpretation", but denying, for example, five times that prayers of saints are in the Bible and mean prayers of saints (Dan will fill in the details on that) is proper?
Re-read the thread, I am not going to repeat the contents of it just for you.
Well, since you asked...
Yes he (Luther) was unsuccessful in his attempts to “remove” a lot of things, namely, for example the Book of James (apparently he wanted to remove that from the Bible)!
Thankfully he was unsuccessful. Also thankfully, he was not successful in his desire to “remove” the Catholic Church! (Not that he ever could of course) Although sadly, he did lead many astray in his rebellion.
That is called seeking publicity and also giving it back to FR. I will be posting excerpts on FR once in a while like I just did.
Thank you. My purpose is generally to show that Catholics have nothing to fear from Protestant mythology that they constructed in their false interpretation of the Holy Gospel. King Luther and the rest of the gang have no clothes and it is time to point it out.
King Luther?
You guys made him a KING?!?!?!
Why did you do that?
LOL that’s a great pic!
I've thought the same. Indeed, when I discovered there was a Charismatic Movement in the Church, I thought that alone would draw many Charismatics. Or the Thomists. I thought that would be a perfect draw for the Calvinists and Reformed (and anyone else who emphasizes "predestination").
It's puzzled me greatly, given the richness in the Universal Church, how some can't seem to find a "niche" somewhere.
LOLOL...Oh brother...
Of all those saints you pray to, you don't if a single one of them is in the presence of God...
Moreover, their prayers are more efficacious than the prayers of the saints on earth, since they are free of sin, and "the prayer of a righteous man availeth much."
We born again Christians right here on Earth are just as free from sin and just as righteous as any 'saint' you are hoping is in heaven...
Rom_6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom_6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
In the eyes of God, you can't get any more righteous than we are...
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