Posted on 08/15/2013 7:03:11 PM PDT by annalex
Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:
Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)
What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:
Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)
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| The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source |
Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.
There are seven different baptisms in the bible...There is only one that puts us into Jesus Christ and it has nothing to do with water...To claim there is only baptism with water in the bible is ignorance of the scriptures, or intentional deception...And one would be wise to avoid both...
Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
There are two types of baptisms right there...One is with water, the other is with the Holy Ghost...
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
What, you think they went swimmin' again???
The gospel simply says -- I paraphrase. "give what you have to the poor and follow Christ". "Monastery" is not there indeed, but monasteries are places created by the Church for that very purpose.Salvation by monastery?
Are you typing from a monastery now? Why not?
The Catholics ignore writings like this of Irenaeus in his writings on heretics and Gnostics. Here he was talking about those that followed Carpocrates and how they used images. He said they were like Gentiles which he considered pagans.
Others of them employ outward marks, branding their disciples inside the lobe of the right ear. From among these also arose Marcellina, who came to Rome under [the episcopate of] Anicetus (154 to 167.), and, holding these doctrines, she led multitudes astray. They style themselves Gnostics. They also possess images, some of them painted, and others formed from different kinds of material; while they maintain that a likeness of Christ was made by Pilate at that time when Jesus lived among them. They crown these images, and set them up along with the images of the philosophers of the world that is to say, with the images of Pythagoras, and Plato, and Aristotle, and the rest. They have also other modes of honouring these images, after the same manner of the Gentiles.? --Irenaeus, Adv. Haer. Bk. I, Ch. 25, 6
One of the “religions” Irenaeus was talking about was the Antinous religion which Carpocrates was part of. It was, get this, tied to homosexuals which Antinous was. The placed much importance on the physical and purely human, physical appearance of their god. Do we know another religion that has the need for the human appearance and images?
The more I study about Catholicism the more pagan influence I find.
ROFLOL! Yeah, they gave their entire fortune right? And none of it was confiscated by the RCC during it’s reign right? You’re not deluding anyone who knows it’s history truthfully.
>>Also, why ghetto language, -- tired of the classics?<<
Ghetto language? LOL! Is snooty part and parcel to being Catholic?
You treat God! Could you give the scripture reference where we are to treat God?
>>The Protestant simply do not worship God<<
Take that up with the Protestants if that’s what you believe.
You are a very good member of the Catholic cult. But you forgot about the Muslims who you share a god with. You really need to update so you agree fully with the RCC.
CCC841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.
Oh, and don’t forget about the atheists if they live a good life.
Nah, I stay clear of cults and stay with scripture and the Holy Spirit.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Dude! There are no “relatives” and “possessions” included in “everlasting life”. Job received all that
on this earth. I’m not sure what misunderstanding you have about the word “and” but it means they got both and “hundred fold return” and they also got eternal life.
They weren’t praising God in that prayer. They are praising Anthony. So what does “anything is possible with God” have to do with it?
And NONE are found in the OT.
It just APPEARS in the NT.
I have no clue as to WHY this is so.
What difference does it make to Catholics? If the RCC says it that settles it for them. That’s how cults work.
Wow. Interesting stuff, CB. The deeper you get, the worse it looks...for the RCC. Keep digging and reporting :)
Yes it is! And as we notice in that verse in Revelation 5 it’s the four and twenty elders who had the prayers and offered them. NOT the saints as we are so often told by Catholics.
Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
But there is still your Revelation 8 where you may be vindicated right?
Revelation 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
Well, well, well! This time it’s an angel and NOT the saints again! Those silly Catholics! They don’t even think we actually “check the scriptures daily, to see if what thy say is true”. They’ve been trying to get us to join their cult on the hope we don’t, Those silly Catholics.
One would think they listen to a different spirit than listening to the Holy Spirit. >>This is the “stuff” he ignored, and it is rude,<<
Actually it would be better for all those who seek truth to ignore what you teach and treat whoever teaches the error you do not just with rude but with the admonition “get thee behinde me”.
And yet here you are with a computer, a wife, and other trappings of being rich. Hypocrit?
Oh that’s rich!!!! You denying what scripture clearly says is NOT “no one contradicted”.
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Acts 17:
24] God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
[25] Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Hmmm there seems to be a conflict between Yehova and the catholics.
Fear of God could [stop St. Timothy engaging in intercession when he passes on, ]
Fear of God could [stop St. Timothy, when he passes on, to offer prayers]
Once again you provocatively insist on forcing a text to support you, and ignore the whole of what i said. Offering up golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints, is not showing saints in Heaving making personal intercession to God, even in offering up their petitions to God, much less on behalf of prayers addressed personally to them. But as the works of believers do follow them, (Rv. 14:13) Rv. 8:4 most evidentially refers to offering up prayers that had been made, as a memorial as in OT memorial offerings.
Moreover, the departed asking God about things, which they can, does not translate into them being Heavenly objects of prayer from earth, and able to hear virtually infinite prayers, which God is the only one who is shown being able to do.
This again is another redundant refutation of your repeated insolent assertions, and thus it becomes more plausible that you are intent to get as many posts as you can in order to promote your book (as long as they are not read), for which i need not take more time to provide. Do not post any more to me on this issue unless it is an apology for your sophistry.
The Lord does reward us with what we have forsaken for Him, even if it is in spiritual terms, and gaining Eternal life besides. But rewards are because of faith which is manifested by works, which God rewards in recognition of faith, but not because the works make one to have morally earned Eternal life (for al deserve Hell).
Likewise the meek shall inherit the earth, which does not mean they do so because they are meek, and thus Gandhi will gain it, but because meekness is a characterize of saving faith. And faith has great recompense (and this sees distinctions btwn condign, congruent or pactum merit):
“Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.” (Hebrews 10:35)
I erred there...What I should have said is there are no saints there who are setting prayers at the altar; at the alter of God...
You: No they are not angels, the scripture calls them "saints" so they are saints.
No, the scripture does not call the angels saints...The scripture calls saints, saints and it calls angels, angels...There are no saints who conversed with God...Only the angels and the elders...
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