Posted on 08/15/2013 7:03:11 PM PDT by annalex
Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:
Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)
What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:
Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)
|
| The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source |
Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.
Grrr...
He’s still breathing...
It does TOO!
In like manner; MORMONs 'venerate' Joseph Smith!
They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.Who has made this so?Have I?Have this people?Have the world?No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.Can you pass without his inspection?No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224
The KNIFE!!
Fixing the BOAT!!!
Why of course there were. Just not like the RCC lies about.
The word “saint” comes from the Greek word hagios, which means “consecrated to God, holy, sacred, pious."
Acts 9:13 But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem.
Acts 9:32 Now as Peter went here and there among them all, he came down also to the saints who lived at Lydda.
We have the book...
That woman is reeking with sin...
She travailed in child birth which is the result of the sin of Adam and Eve...So if it is Mary (which of course it isn't), she wasn't sinless...
Your theology is a boggled up mess...
Good point, in the context which it was raised.
How many "dulia's" should be afforded those 119? Something more than a dozen, by a most conservative count, it could be argued.
Now that that is out way [for now] ... how many "hypers"?
Only one, and you should know that! ("good gawd what a stupid dork of 'teacher' this guy asking stupid questions is", the student angrily, resentfully and quietly thinks to himself...)
Because she is His mother! She had Him inside her womb -- just think about that!
Never mind people, what Jesus Himself had to say about the "mother" aspect, as it applied even directly to himself. It has been "polished" into meaning contrary what is clearly enough stated.
Or as in regarding the OP's presentation here regarding Luke 11:29-28
[big eyeroll]
LOL!!! One has to wonder if she needs a hearing aid.
Well, at least I guess we can relax in the fact of being able to see Mary in the mold on a subway tunnel or in a grill cheese sandwich. ;O)
LOL...Ain’t that the truth...
I wasn't aware of that...And I thought I knew everything...Well, now I do, I guess...
Hmmm...A person was born out of the womb...And then the same person is born from above...Born twice...But after he was born out of the womb and being born the 2nd time, he wasn't born again...He was born twice but the 2nd time he wasn't born again...Sure thing...
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Well look at that...Jesus did say 'again', red letters and everything...
1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
And Peter pope copies what Jesus said...You may not want to believe Jesus but don't you at least believe Peter???
While references to living saints are numerous, they are never a substitute for “all Christians” or “everyone in your church”: St. Paul makes a reference to a group of people perhaps visibly designated or perhaps not, but always a select group in his mind. The “saints” to Paul are subject of imitation: “receive her in the Lord as becometh saints”, he urges in Romans 16:2. It appears that these “saints” had an ability to judge, not only judge the world in the afterlife but also adjudicate daily disputes:Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to be judged before the unjust, and not before the saints? Know you not that the saints shall judge this world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? (1 Corinthinas 6:1-2)Observe a curious turn of the thought: some Corinthians apparently had gone to a non-Christian judge whereas St. Paul expects them to resolve the dispute “before the saints”, but in the next statement he puts the transgressors themselves as putative judges: “are you unworthy to judge”, he asks. This discourse reveals an ecclesial court of peers where select parishioners are asked to judge other parishioners. It is then those capable of judgment that St. Pall calls “saints”...
[...]
Pauline “saints” are a select group among the parishioners in the church.
This distinction is even more apparent in these passages:
concerning the collections that are made for the saints… (1 Corinthians 16:1)concerning the ministry that is done towards the saints… (2 Corinthians 9:1, and several similar)
So the saints to Paul are not the entire local church, but a select group that is a beneficiary of a special ministry; donations are gathered for them from among the parishioners. We don’t know much further; perhaps these “saints” were the elderly in the church, perhaps they were distinguished by their special dedication to the church. They could be some early form of nuns and monks perhaps: people who renounced their possessions and literally lived in the church.
Clearly, not every believer was a saint according to Paul.
on some other occasions St. Paul speaks of sainthood as an aspiration:
to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that invoke the name of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:2)the beloved of God, called to be saints (Romans 1:7)
to them that love God, all things work together unto good, to such as, according to his purpose, are called to be saints. (Romans 8:28)
In all these quotes, unlike the two previous groups, the reference is explicitly made to all Christians, that is all who believe in Christ and love God, or receive God’s love. But to Paul they are not quite “saints” but rather “called to be saints”. That then matches the modern understanding perfectly, where we think of all believers as being on the road to sainthood, rather than necessarily sainted already.
In short, the idea that every baptized person is a "saint" accordingh to how St. Paul used the word is another Protestant hoax.
pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much. (James 5:16)
You are under the counterscriptural illusion that mutual intercessions are restricted to people on earth. Not so: the saints have life everlasting.
This was discussed at great length already, in the first couple hundred posts. Why don't you try reading the thread from the beginning?
LOL One thing I have always thought telling was that the images of Mary closely resemble the mother and child of paganism. It’s no wonder I suppose as that’s where they took most of their ideas from.
I will preface my answer with a question of my own. Do you feel safe there? There are too many places back in the good old USA where I would never even think about stepping out of the house after dark, and too many places where I wouldn't even go during the day light.
The Philippine culture is so totally different from what is common back in the states these days. I would liken it more to the culture where I grew up as a youth. Here, I see a couple of cute four or five-year-old girls walking down the street a couple of blocks from home. This morning I left my house around 5 AM and walked into town, around the market pictured, and took a different route back home. It's about a 5 km walk round-trip.
All along the way, I saw men, women, and children of all ages walking, talking, and living their lives. This is a community where there are few predators other than the rats and mosquitoes. You'll occasionally hear of some pervert take advantage of a child, but it is rarely a Filipino. It is “a foreigner” usually.
Life here is so much better for me. The people are friendly and helpful. They are family oriented and open. The food that the typical Filipino eats consists largely of rice with fish, or rice with chicken, or rice with pork, or rice with vegetables. Their sweets are rice with chocolate and sugar, or rice with coconut and sugar, or yeast breads with sugar sprinkled on top. Of course, that is not complete, but it is typical.
I have made friends here, mostly with the locals, the Filipinos. Most of the foreigners that I meet, including Americans, are married to a Filipina wife. Many of them, though are just living with a girlfriend. But, most of them are also accustomed to meeting together at some local bar. That is never been part of my lifestyle, and I rarely spend much time talking with them except when I see them in the mall or in the shops or on the street.
I was out walking this morning for exercise, and along the way I passed a local funeral home. There are vendors selling food everywhere. Next to the funeral home, there was a lady under a pop-up tent preparing sweet rice packets (sugared rice wrapped in a banana leaf piece) and several people sitting around talking. One guy introduced himself as Vince. I recognized the face and had a nice conversation with one of the local city councilman at 6:30 AM. He, like me, likes to go out early in the cool of the morning for exercise.
But, there was one old fella that stumbled over towards me from the funeral home. He is probably somebody's grandfather, but he was obviously drunk. He was harmless, and like so many Filipinos, he just wanted to come over and be recognized and to shake my hand. He wanted to tell me about his friend who had passed away. He had been at the funeral home since yesterday, spending the night drinking "chuba', a cheap local coconut brew. he was with friends comparing notes and stories and lives. But, Filipinos, for the most part, love us foreigners.
Being a man all of my life, I don't know how it would be for a single woman living alone here. But, I would bet it is much safer than most of the cities in America. I'd also bet that it wouldn't be long before there would be lots of friends to while away the day.
I live in a two-story house with an iron fence out front and a gate closed at night. At the side of the house, is an 8 foot tall block wall topped with shards of glass sticking out. I don't bother to lock my gate, though I do lock my doors at night out of habit.
My neighbors are nice people, and they offer all of the security that I need. Two blocks away, there are mansions and shacks on the same street. There are wealthy Filipinos, but the vast majority are poor. But, there are not a lot of robberies or break-ins around me. I did just hear a squeal outside my window, though. It was a pig being hauled to market.
The Catholics certainly feel the corrupting influence of Luther, especially in America where we mingle with the Protestant arrogance all the time. However, I am comparing the doctrines. The Catholic doctrine is fasting, other forms of mortification of flesh, monasticism, work in defense of innocent life, as a necessary part of the ongoing salvation. At least we don't hold to the presumption of being saved already or sanctified already.
It's Protestant pastors who are dead, and no one needs an instruction from them. The Saints are alive, more than we are.
Yes, thanks be to God, I would not post anything that contradicts the teachings of One Holy Catholic Church. As I reminded my fellow Catholics many times, please correct me if you see anything that does not square with the teachings of the Magisterium, and I will retract my statement.
That veneration of saints developed after the scripture was written, and certainly that Mary was assumed into heaven after that, — does not make the teaching of the Holy Apostolic Church “another gospel”.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.