Posted on 08/15/2013 7:03:11 PM PDT by annalex
Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:
Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)
What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:
Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)
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| The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source |
Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.
I dobn’t particularly care what you see. The fact is that your statements of what you believe violate what you post as the Scripture that you believe in.
Nice.
Does the god in the mirror offer any more wisdom?
The ‘champion’ of Jean Cauvin is wrong? Then the basis of the entire Reformation is wrong? And your opinionated refutation of the Catholic Church is wrong?
Hmmm. The god in the mirror is going to be required to answer some serious questions.
Rant much?
You don’t rate one.
That argument is absurd. (1Cor. 15:52) The Scriptures do not teach of any souls being resurrected with glorified bodies and crowned in heaven prior to the last trump at Christ''s return, and after that saints receiving their crowns and places of rule. The assumption of Mary and her glorification is not what Scripture teaches, and trying to metaphysically excuse this by invoking the timeless nature of eternity is desperate, and as a hermeneutic leads to eschatological chaos, and is contrary to the description of revelation God chooses to operate under. The devil has not yet been cast into the lake of fire after the beast and false prophet were there for a 1,00 years, and other like events have not yet occurred. Including Mary receiving any crowns.
It is a bit ironical that someone with Lutheran views should compare her labors with Paul’s and see her coming short. Her great work was BEING the mother of my Lord. You think that a mean accomplishment?
Regardless of how you construe my argument, I certainly did not say that Mary's role as a mother was not significant, being the virtuous vessel by whom the Word became flesh, and was cared for accordingly, but that the record does not testify to Mary being superior in love, labor, holiness or sufferings for the Lord and His body, the church. T
The Holy Spirit was not negligent in only giving a brief record of Mary, while abundantly recording Paul's love, labor, holiness and sufferings for the church and providing the word of God in tangible form, but the extreme exaltation and magnification of Mary is far beyond what Scripture says, and overall warrants. And as Paul admonished the Corinthians "not to think of men above that which is written," (1 Corinthians 4:6) so this applies to Mary.
But the cult of Mary will not be restrained, which testifies to its unscriptural source. As even the Catholic Encyclopedia states on "Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary,"
A further reinforcement, of the same idea, was derived from the cult of the angels, which, while pre-Christian in its origin, was heartily embraced by the faithful of the sub-Apostolic age. It seems to have been only as a sequel of some such development that men turned to implore the intercession of the Blessed Virgin. This at least is the common opinion among scholars, though it would perhaps be dangerous to speak too positively. Evidence regarding the popular practice of the early centuries is almost entirely lacking...— http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15459a.htm,
See post 145
I am saddened that the love of my brother has waxed cold toward me. Peace be to you.
oh?
Says WHO?
Sorry; but that's the very DEFINITION of a 'miracle' - something OUTSIDE of the 'normal' method of things happening.
Logic tells us that if Mary really DOES hear the prayers sent her direction; then she MUST be GODLIKE!
The poor woman NEVER gets a chance to sleep, eat, or whatever ELSE folks who are presumed to be in Heaven do.
Oh?
Says WHO?
But Everyone knows that MAry is dead and in her grave, awaiting the last trump as are ALL those who have died in Christ.
And just whose heresies are responsible for the RCC's COUNTER reformation?
You have failed to grasp the simple complexity of scriptural Calvinosaurusization.
You see; you need a little snippet of this, found here; and a tiny dab of that, found there; and a sprinkling of other things found elsewhere; to come up with some theological points that are worthy of inclusion on the latest Discovery channel's series: Theology in a Blender 9 CST.
I don't particularly care what you object to or should object to, but to the extent that something like Evangelicalism must exist, yeah, that sounds about right.
OOps!
The Church's most prominent outreach today, the New Evangelization, aims at reviving the spiritual lives of those who have drifted from Christ.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3055724/posts
Hi Elsie- You are a Mormon?
God indeed has no beginning nor end; Christ therefore has no beginning nor end. Christ whole does however have a mother; that is what the Holy Scripture teaches. That mother, Mary is the Mother of God, and Luke 1:43 calls her that.
Well, that is true. In general God knows out intentions and our actions before we know them and act on them. This does not mean we are not free to act at the time that we decide to act.
Good. So do I.
Take it up with God.
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