Posted on 08/15/2013 7:03:11 PM PDT by annalex
Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:
Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)
What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:
Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)
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| The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source |
Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.
Regarding 2 Timothy 1:5
Oh it doesn’t? Are you saying that Paul did not know Timothy’s grandmother and mother?
Regarding 3 John 1:10
Look at the previous verse.
9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
John was clearly referencing something Diotrephes HAD done and John would remember that.
Neither one of the verses you use indicates anything other than someone remembering something they had seen or heard.
Oh it does?
Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
Paul rebukes Peter for applying rules for salvation.
Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.
Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."
Now you give me one verse from James that you clearly must not understand. Either that or scripture contradicts itself and that can’t be. There is an explanation for that verse in James but I will let you ask the Holy Spirit for guidance.
Compare and contrast The Canons of the Council of Orange
with the Council of Trent.
I'll go first.
Orange is full of grace and faith. In Trent Rome anathematized itself.
So much for tradition.
Amen. I await the answer for this one,too.
Time to break out the popecorn?
by all means!:) Let me know if you’re wanting a popesicle. I have some in the freezer...
Who can we get to bring the soda pope?
hmmm....I’ve pinged CB and jodyel. One can bring the soda pope and the other can bring the popearonni pizza..
People really need to understand that reference in James. Catholics in particular take that one verse over all the others which contradict their understanding of that verse. One would think that a thinking person would realize that there is something in that verse in James that they don’t understand with as much other scripture that contradicts what they say it means.
Hey, I ain’t bringin nothing that smacks of RCC. I’m just having some RCCola. Oh wait……….
Isn't that funny??? They distort a verse because it has their word tradition in it...They can never show what these oral traditions are nor they will ever be able to...
They then further pervert the verse by somehow insisting that their distorted verse gives them the authority to (any time in the future) make up tradition as history moves along and put it above the authority of God's Holy words...
And even tho thy can see the verse(s) says nothing remotely close to what they are told it means, they disbelieve their eyes and are convinced their supposed 'spirit filled clergy' has the inside track on the 'real' meaning of the verse(s)...
You’re right. ANd you think it would start them on a search of comparing Scripture with Scripture to see for themselves if what they believe is what God intended them to believe. I’m pretty sure He didn’t give any contradictory Scriptures, so it MUST mean something they’ve never bothered to investigate.
LOL!! Hey, we can still make it a real popepapalooza!!
...speaking of “Hey”, you know what’s on tonight...
NO, what’s on tonight?
...duck dynasty...happy, happy, happy I am :)
No false religiousity
>> “I await the answer for this one,too.” <<
.
I pray thee be not holding thy breath!
It worked for Luke!
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That bottom one must be a Jew?
He’s wearing a kippa...
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