[imardmd1]

So Jesus didn't turn water into wine at a wedding?Of course he did. That is a clear event where Hus Divinity was shown. I think back when I figured it out, it would be over 200 servings.

In English, we generally reserve the word "wine" to refer to alcoholic beverage wine. But that constraint is not so in Biblical Hebrew/Aramaic or Greek. There the hebrew word "yayin" = wine (sound it out) refers to pressed grape juice, either fermented or unfermented. The same is so for the Greek word oinos = wine (sounds alike) which could be either.

So when you read of wine in the Bible, you have to look at the context to see if it refers to alcoholic wine. If you can't tell from context, make no assumptions. It could be either.

At Cana, it is difficult to imagine that Jesus would attend an event that would turn out to be a drunken party. Nor would one think that He would hold this out to his disciples to be one which He could approve.

In this case, the banquet ran out of the social beverage, and His mother asked Him to do something about it. Now get this: He asked the servants to fill up some stone containers with water. They were not ceramic pots. Jews used the stone jars for water, because in their rituals, water that was stored in stone would be considered "living water," that is, like rain water or freshly drawn stream waster. Well water was not "living water"--but if it was placed in stone containers, it could then be considered "living water" and fit for religious use. Normally drinking water would be stored in ceramic pots, inasmuch as they were plentiful as compared to vessels created from stone, and used for special purposes.

Therefore, when Jesus transformed this water into grape juice, the wine would then be OK if it was as new wine, unfermented. If he had made it alcoholic wine, it would be in religious vessels not ever used for this purpose!

Now let me tell you this: God never gave us alcoholic drink as a gift. Normally, fresh grape juice (or apple juice or other fruit juice) when left open to the air will quickly start to ferment, and open to the air, it will soon turn to vinegar and taste bad. Wine can only be made by placing the juice in a closed, sealable container, not letting any air come in, and fermenting the juice anaerobically. Thus it is an invention of man, not a process that God ever tells us to conduct. And its product, alcoholic beverage, is a tool of Satan's children, wordlings, and accrues to his purposes, not God's. Read through Proverbs, and see what the Holy Ghost has to say about alcoholic beverages.

As a further note, "strong drink" in the Bible is not brandy or whiskey or cognac. It is beer or mead (made from honey) or some such non-grape or non-fruit fermentations. Egyptians drank a lot of beer, and I suppose Israelites lerned of it in their 430-year stay there. Distillation of alcohol was not discovered until about AD 700-800, and thus whiskey/rum/cognac type fluids were not a part of the Biblical history. Again. distillationof drink products is a devilish man-made invention, and its products are certainly not gifts from God.

Who is it that put it in your head that alcoholic beverages are gifts from God???

[nanetteclaret]

Psalm 104 tells us that wine is a gift from God:

“He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man’s heart. O Lord, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches.” Psalm 104:14-15; 24 KJV

[editor-surveyor]

The praise given of the wine Yeshua made made it plain that it was quality fermented wine.

[Elsie]

What about ‘old skins’?

They are mentioned in three of the Gospels.

And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins. And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for he says, ‘The old is better.’ (Luke 5:36-39)

Just WHY is the old better?

And WHY do the skins burst if reused?

[Elsie]

Who is it that put it in your head that alcoholic beverages are gifts from God???

HMMMmmm...

Pete?

---

ACTS 10

13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spoke unto him again the second time, What God has cleansed, that call not common.

---

It took 3 times before Peter got the message...

[Elsie]

Read through Proverbs, and see what the Holy Ghost has to say about * alcoholic beverages.

You left out 'getting drunk on'.

[Elsie]

Genesis 19:32

Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

---

2 Peter 2:8

(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

---

So; just WHERE did the 'righteous man' get the non-alcoholic wine that managed to incapacitate him?

[WVKayaker]

Therefore, when Jesus transformed this water into grape juice, the wine would then be OK if it was as new wine, unfermented. If he had made it alcoholic wine, it would be in religious vessels not ever used for this purpose!

Now let me tell you this: God never gave us alcoholic drink as a gift.

Friend, it is obvious that you see personal problems from alcoholic use. But, it is also obvious that you may misunderstand the wedding feast scene. I will make an attempt to explain my understanding of that miracle. My God can do anything at any time. Jesus is God incarnate.

At the feast, which was an ongoing multi-day event, the family was running out of wine, fermented Alcoholic wine. We can see this from the circumstance and customs of the day. It was a party, a celebration, and the wine was flowing freely.

John 2: 9... the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.” (- NIV)

When reading this, it is clear to me that the guests were drinking a wine containing alcohol ("...after the guests have had too much to drink"). It is also clear that the new wine presented to the "master of the banquet" was alcohol, and that it was really good wine, much better than that which had been served already. I would expect nothing less from God.

You POV is not Biblical. It seems more personal, and biased from some life experience(s). Alcoholism is a societal problem, and alcohol abuse is a major problem in our world. But, sin is defined as "missing the mark", as an arrow shot toward the bullseye target. Excess of any kind is sinful.

A friend of mine is a heart surgeon and he advised me (back in 1994) to drink a glass or two of RED wine every day (not grape juice). His advice was based on the many studies of wine usage in the Mediterranean countries. Those people eat a lot of fats and carbs and do not have the same physical problems we see in modern Americans. The key is that red wine has shown some benefits to help maintain metabolic activities, and heart health. He's a pretty smart guy.

I buy cheap red table wines by the box. That way, I am not "killing" a bottle to have a glass. A 3 liter box will last me more than a week, even when having two glasses a day. I drink it every day.

My "friend" Paul also gave that advice... i Timothy 5: 22 Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor take part in the sins of others; keep yourself pure. 23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.) 24 The sins of some people are conspicuous, going before them to judgment, but the sins of others appear later.

Wine is a gift from God and was used for most times. Ask Noah if he drank grape juice... (Genesis 9: 20ff)

[Gamecock]

New wine has alcohol.

If Jesus makes wine for people to celebrate, it is certainly a gift from God.

Deuteronomy 14:26 And spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.

So please tell me how strong drink is really ice tea with a bit more caffeine.