Does The Orthodox Presbyterian Church use the Crucifix?

The Orthodox Presbyterian Church ^

[Gamecock]

Question:

Does the OPC use the crucifix in the church? If not, are they opposed to it?

Answer:

Thank you for your question. The answer is, so far as I know, the crucifix is not used in OPC churches, and here is why:

1.The Second Commandment (Ex. 20:4-6 and Deut. 5:8-10) forbids any picture or image of God, and that would include the Son of God, even as man. At any rate we do not know what Jesus looked like as there is no physical description of him.

2.The crucifix will always end up being an object of worship—regarded as holy. History teaches as much. The bronze serpent Moses made became an object of worship and was not destroyed till King Hezekiah did it (Numbers 21:9; 2 Kings 18:1-5). Roman Catholics have worshipped it, kissed it and held it to have mystical powers.

3.Christ did not remain on the Cross. In the Roman Church Christ is said to be resacrificed each time the Mass is celebrated. This is heresy; he died once for all—Hebrews 9:25-28.

We in the OPC have learned not to trust our idolatry prone hearts not to do the same as others have in the past. Hence, no crucifixes are used. So, yes, we are opposed to it.

[Elsie]

Your opinion is noted, but it was not asked for.

Quite Barak like.

[Elsie]

And what makes "Presbyterian" ortodox?

You mean Orthodox.

[Elsie]

This is really dumb because in almost every state one may not operate a motor vehicle with a blood alcohol level above .08%

Irrelevant as no motor vehicles were around 2000 years ago.

[WVKayaker]

Sorry for your trouble. I have it in the Trinitarian Textus Receptus (Scriveners), Nestle-Aland (1934), and Pierpont& Robinson’s Byzantine/Majority Textform. No need to duplicate — takes too much bandwidth

Hahahahahaaaa again. You rely on somebody else's translations... I figured you preferred the KJV. I own 27 Bibles of all different types and languages, but these days just go to http://www.biblegateway.com... I use the NIV for reading! I use the Holy Spirit for discernment!

[Elsie]

This is not about Prohibitionism, it about choice, about obeying Christ, and experiencing a few less tears in Heaven.

Bottom line...

1 John 3:21-24

Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.

And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them.

And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

[Elsie]

In particular it did not account for those whose study and prayer led them to conclude that the Catholic Church is where the fulness of the Chuch is to be found.

This will ALSO get a person into the MORMON religion Organization!

[Elsie]

You should see how my mom dressed ME!

[Elsie]

Why don’t you worry about your own sect and mind your own business.

AHhhh...

The ol' Rodney King ploy: Can't we all just get along?

---

No...

---

 

Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?

 

Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.

 

 

 

 

 

Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

 

Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

 

 

1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

 

 

1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.

 

 

Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

 

 

1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.

 

 

1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

 

 

2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

 

 

 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.

 

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

 

 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

 

 

Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.

 

 

Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

 

 

Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

 

 

 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.

 

 

 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

 

 

2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

[Elsie]

I can list all KINDS of things that leads to less control of a vehicle; yet NONE of THEM are ‘illegal’.

[Elsie]

I hate to have to wade through every sentence to see if it even begins to line up with legitimately translated preserved Scripture.

Have you made an IDOL of the King James Version?

Did you know that in Madrid, Spain hardly ANYONE uses it?

Likewise in Berlin, Moscow and Tokyo!

[Elsie]

Here's the Greek NT for ya!

WHICH 'greek' - ya heretic!!

--iamarock_wannabe(http://www.lyricsfreak.com/s/simon+and+garfunkel/i+am+a+rock_20124809.html)

[Elsie]

No need to duplicate — takes too much bandwidth

Wow!

I've not heard THIS in a while!

Do you know most of us can download vast amounts of information in a mere FRACTION of the time it USED to take?

[WVKayaker]

Good morning (evening here). I am proud to know that somebody knows how to post from the internet!

I am also happy that you are in good spirits this morning! It is a shame that some people feel they are bound and tied!

[MarkBsnr]

I see that you have missed the point again. There are many texts from the Roman era and later historical texts that give a rather lucid and accurate description of the practices of crucifixion in excruciating detail. Google will avail you access to many of them.

But Pilate expressing surprise that Jesus died that day, rather than on subsequent days is enough Biblical proof for those other than the most obtuse.

By the way, Jesus went to hell to speak to those imprisoned there. If that is what you choose to call Paradise, then so be it.

[MarkBsnr]

You aren't getting my goat here.

I saw a goat or two on Leno last night. I did NOT see you! PBBbbbt!

That's because (as a practicing Catholic, I do not eat meat on Fridays), I was preparing this:

Nah nanny boo boo.

[imardmd1]

We cannot stand before God and be judged righteous. It is not possible.

No, and I'm not counting on that. But I will stand before The Christ at His judgment Seat, and the works done in my body will be judged. So will yours, if that's where you wind up. And I'm certainly not thinking Arminian in outcomes.

I think I'll keep on giving booze a pass. God has given the ability. It's on the same level spiritually with Zyklon B and methadone. As we see.

It is clear that you don't understand everything Jesus did, before, during, and after his crucifixion. Your misinterpretations of Old Testament Scriptures do not understand that the OT was designed to point out that man cannot live according to the Law, and that it is ABSOLUTELY necessary that we have a kinsman redeemer, a Goel.

It is you, friend, who do not understand that EVERY word of The God is a part of His Salvation AND sancification plan. The theme of the Bible, front to back, is the Coming of The Messiah and His Kingdom of Righteousness and Peace.

Old Testament Scriptures do apply when they meet the conditions of having the same context and are universally . If you are not interested in moving on from salvation into usefulness, just chop off everything from the Gospels on, and remove Psalm 119 and Proverbs, at least. What we have been talking is a part of that. You can only exemplify what you live.

[Elsie]

It is a shame that some people feel they are bound and tied!

But, to them, it is probably a secure feeling; knowing that they have limits that should not be exceeded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0

[Elsie]

That's because (as a practicing Catholic, I do not eat meat on Fridays), I was preparing this:

Bah!

A 'practicing' Mormon - who has a Temple Recommend - does not eat meat all SUMMER!!

---

 

 

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 89

 

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.

 

1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.

 

  1 A ^aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the ^aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and ^bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

  3 Given for a principle with ^apromise, adapted to the capacity of the ^bweak and the weakest of all ^csaints, who are or can be called saints.

  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of ^aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of ^bconspiring men in the last days, I have ^cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

  5 That inasmuch as any man ^adrinketh ^bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, ^apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

  7 And, again, ^astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

  8 And again, tobacco is not for the ^abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome ^aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with ^aprudence and ^bthanksgiving.

  12 Yea, ^aflesh also of ^bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used ^csparingly;

  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be ^aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or ^bfamine.

  14 All ^agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

  15 And ^athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

  16 All grain is good for the ^afood of man; as also the ^bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ^ashall receive ^bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;

  19 And shall ^afind ^bwisdom and great ^ctreasures of ^dknowledge, even hidden treasures;

  20 And shall ^arun and not be ^bweary, and shall walk and not faint.

  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the ^adestroying angel shall ^bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

---

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[WVKayaker]

No, and I'm not counting on that. But I will stand before The Christ at His judgment Seat, and the works done in my body will be judged. So will yours, if that's where you wind up. And I'm certainly not thinking Arminian in outcomes

With that statement, it is clear to me that you really don't accept the salvation message that is defined by Paul. There is absolutely nothing you can do that will earn you a crown. You must accept the fact that you are a sinner, and will always be. Is that a license, as Paul says, "God forbid".

But, did Christ die for us to live according to the OT? Are we not to enjoy the things He has bestowed? I am not gong to become a monk, nor live a life of Asceticism. The vision Peter received on the rooftop tells me that I do not have to live in a cave, eating worms...

Christ turned water into wine, in spite of your desire to deny that miracle. It had alcohol. Jesus drank wine, in spite of your denials of clear Scriptures that affirm it as fact. I've studied them, as well. I believe Jesus's words and try to live according to the Spirit.

I drink wine, too! But, like my Savior, I am not a winebibber (drunk). I'll just put my wine box in the cupboard if you are around, as I don't want you to stumble in your weakness!

Matthew 15: 15 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’[a] and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

8 “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ ”

10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”

12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”

13 He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14 Leave them; they are blind guides.[d] If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”

15 Peter said, “Explain the parable to us.”

16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.” ...

[Elsie]

So will yours, if that's where you wind up.

IF??

MY bible says ALL will be there!

---

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.