Posted on 07/14/2013 3:02:43 PM PDT by NYer
“He asked first.”
Just like yourself he has refused to disclose his true affiliations, when queried.
For what purpose he has concealed this, I do not know. However, I am not answering any of his further questions unless he’s willing to answer mine.
Some of the folks here are honest about answering questions rather than being deliberately evasive. You and CB are not.
So - answer my question as to which church you belong to. If you can’t provide a name then it would be good to have a number.
Every practicing protestant I know of this is a complete non-issue. So I can only conclude there is something you do not wish other Christians to know about your faith. What? I do not know.
So, if you and CB want an answer to your questions, I suggest you answer my first question - what church do you attend? If of course you do attend one.
Go ahead and answer his instead of throwing other questions out there in alleged response to his and see what happens.
Also, FR courtesy seems to be seriously lacking amongst FRoman Catholics. It’s protocol to courtesy ping someone whom you mention, especially by name, in a post.
1. You provided no evidence in any of the 12 categories.
2. Yo provided no link between you 300 year start date and anything that ever happened previously.
3. Your last misstatement indicates you do not understand the evidence of transmission.
If you ever find actual evidence that connects the apparently CULTIC practice to Christian truth, please do ping me. I’d like to know what you find.
1. A small percentage believe departed saints are dead. Most believe that to be absent from the body is to be present with The Lord.
2. Christ - God - performed a miracle to have two Old Testament Jewish believers appear together with him. Not even close to the false practice being taught.
“2. Yo provided no link between you 300 year start date and anything that ever happened previously.”
It is in the Apostolic Creed, for which we have evidence (from the Church fathers), describing the doctrine going to around the time of Chalcedon.
Arguing that you do not like the evidence I provided is one thing (because it doesn’t fit your arbitrary rule), arguing that I provided no evidence whatsoever for the doctrine is quite another.
The strongest scriptural evidence in favor of the communion of Saints is the fact that Christ himself proclaimed (when speaking of Abraham), that God was not a God of the dead but of the living. He argued that Abraham, though he had died, was presently alive.
I see no scriptural evidence for your position that saints are dead, and in fact, I would argue that’s contrary to the hope that Jesus christ provides of eternity with Him.
“I’m a member of a Wesleyan congregation”
Is that the same as being a Methodist?
There is a Wesleyan Church.
xzinz, may the most holy apostle, St Jude, patron saint of things almost despaired of, assist you as well.
“I see no scriptural evidence for your position that saints are dead, and in fact, I would argue that’s contrary to the hope that Jesus christ provides of eternity with Him.”
On multiple posts I have been clear I do not believe this - yet you keep posting it. Please post with integrity.
“Arguing that you do not like the evidence I provided is one thing (because it doesn’t fit your arbitrary rule), arguing that I provided no evidence whatsoever for the doctrine is quite another.
You have provided no evidence that directly connects the cultic practice with anything that was practiced by Christians for the first 300 years.
“The strongest scriptural evidence in favor of the communion of Saints is the fact that Christ himself proclaimed (when speaking of Abraham), that God was not a God of the dead but of the living. He argued that Abraham, though he had died, was presently alive.
That saints are alive is a separate issue from whether they can hear you, whether they pray for you or whether you should pray to them. Each of those issues is an argument from silence that you have not supported.
Each time you shift to change the discussion. Post with integrity if you are a Christian please. If you are not, it is pointless to interact with you.
May I suggest Verga, that you consider bringing your cookware into the 21st century?
Sears, potandpan-kitchen-cookware.blogspot.com/ & all kinds of online sources mentions multi-colored cookware...
And guess what, it's been around for over 80 years:
Even Pots and Pans Have Their Fashions in Colors (The Milwaukee Sentinel, Feb. 2, 1932)
And ceramic cookware's been around as black alternatives as well.
So, no...your cliche is just that. (And may not match reality)
WOW >1000 posts on this thread! How have I missed it? Thanks for the thread. Very inspiring, and educational!
Derived authority allows people to exercise such authority...the power to bind and loose, the power to forgive sins.
It doesn't mean that the One from whom such authority is derived ever lost it.
Likewise, Paul twice references Jesus as THE Head of the Church.
No undivinated man is the head of the Church; Jesus never abdicated that role. He is STILL Head of the church.
Am praying with you about your 3 yr old grandson.
May the Good Lord intercede and let him remain in his body with full healing, according to His Will. Amen
Great stuff in your comment. Thank you!
Here is something else I found in the official catechism of the Roman church. After reading this, any Bible-believing God-fearing man should run as fast from Rome as possible. All other Roman blasphemies aside, this should tell you all you need to know about this pontiff and the institution he heads.
Paragraph 882 reads as follows: “The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter’s successor, “is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.” “For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.”
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2A.HTM
Let’s compare #882 from the catechism to Scripture.
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” (Matthew 28:18)
So, in the wake of His resurrection, the Bible tells us that Jesus claimed to hold ALL power in heaven and in earth. That doesn’t seem to square with the claim of papal power found in paragraph 882.
Let’s look further:
Ephesians 1:20-23
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
God the Father put ALL things under the feet of Jesus Christ, and gave Jesus Christ to be the head over ALL things to the church, which is His body! Hmmm, that doesn’t seem to square with the papal claim either.
Here is another papal claim from the official catechism:
Paragraph 937 says, “The Pope enjoys, by divine institution, “supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls”
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2A.HTM
Christ claimed He had been given all power, but Rome says that power is in the hands of the pope. WOW!
Thanks for the information. My Mom and sister are Methodist, but I wasn’t aware that there was a separate Wesleyan Church.
On a different note, I saw the history of North Carolina on your About page. My family spent a week in Atlantic Beach over the July 4th holiday. We went to Ft. Macon and Beaufort, and found the visits to be very interesting and informative. On the way home, we ate lunch in New Bern and stopped at the visitors center at Tryon Palace. My wife learned that one of her favorite authors lives in New Bern. It was a wonderful vacation and I hope we can do it again.
The Psalms that are written as prayers are actually prophecies. Psalm 83 will soon show you that if you doubt it.
.Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
It's sad to see there are so many who think there's a back door to heaven...
For those of us who the 'book' is the final authority, there's no doubt whatsoever that salvation is thru the person of Jesus Christ, alone...
Those who refuse to acknowledge that don't spend much or any time with God in his scriptures...
Even though this point has been raised ad nauseum on this thread (I’m sure) and elsewhere, I simply can’t resist asking you the following question: do you not see any value at ALL in intercessory prayer, or do you only do it because the Bible tells you to pray for others?
I ask because I honestly can’t believe you just wrote the following:
“’Hey, so and so, ask God for me.....’
“What an appalling lack of trust in God to do what is right and lack of faith in the promises Jesus made about prayer and the Father.”
Now I’m going to guess you will say something like: “Of course I’ll ask someone ALIVE to pray for me” or “the people in heaven can’t hear your requests for intercessory prayer”, or something like THAT, which will just go to prove conclusively what I claimed in the post of mine to which you offered a reply.
Note: that’s a GUESS as to what you aware going to reply back to me. I can’t know for SURE since I can’t read minds. But I’m pretty sure I’m right. :).
New Bern is old too, once a colonial capital. Settled by Swiss (hence the name), the town has a beautiful heraldic flag with a bear on it, that’s the symbol of New Bern.
If you like shipwrecks and pirates, as well as Civil War and WWII history, you’d enjoy Ocracoke Island and Hatteras Island on the Outer Banks. Ocracoke is only reachable by ferry, private boat or small plane. Blackbeard hung out there and was executed there.
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