Posted on 05/22/2013 4:02:56 AM PDT by markomalley
“Doing good” is a principle that unites all humanity, beyond the diversity of ideologies and religions, and creates the “culture of encounter” that is the foundation of peace: this is what Pope said at Mass this morning at the Domus Santae Martae, in the presence of employees of the Governorate of Vatican City. Cardinal Bechara Boutros Rai, Patriarch of Antioch of the Maronites, concelebrated at the Mass.
Wednesday’s Gospel speaks to us about the disciples who prevented a person from outside their group from doing good. “They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”:
"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can. He must. Not can: must! Because he has this commandment within him. Instead, this ‘closing off’ that imagines that those outside, everyone, cannot do good is a wall that leads to war and also to what some people throughout history have conceived of: killing in the name of God. That we can kill in the name of God. And that, simply, is blasphemy. To say that you can kill in the name of God is blasphemy.”
“Instead,” the Pope continued, “the Lord has created us in His image and likeness, and has given us this commandment in the depths of our heart: do good and do not do evil”:
"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all! And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”
“Doing good” the Pope explained, is not a matter of faith: “It is a duty, it is an identity card that our Father has given to all of us, because He has made us in His image and likeness. And He does good, always.”
This was the final prayer of Pope Francis:
"Today is [the feast of] Santa Rita, Patron Saint of impossible things – but this seems impossible: let us ask of her this grace, this grace that all, all, all people would do good and that we would encounter one another in this work, which is a work of creation, like the creation of the Father. A work of the family, because we are all children of God, all of us, all of us! And God loves us, all of us! May Santa Rita grant us this grace, which seems almost impossible. Amen.”
You’re wrong Iscool. Paul states that Jesus died for all and that God wishes all to be saved.
I don’t have the time to pull up exact Scripture quotes, but if you are as confident in your knowledge of the Bible as you say you are, then you know which passages I am referring to.
Having said all of that, your post only adds to my unhappiness with this particular papal homily. So I thank you for helping to validate my feelings.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Again, no atheists...No muzlims...
What I get from all of this, the homily, the subsequent discussions, and the Scripture itself, is that Pope Francis was speaking to the cleansing act of the Crucifixion. That it took the place of EVERY sin for EVERY man, woman, and child. It redeems all mankind in its role as sacrifice.
What is missing, as far as I can tell, is the explanation that people can still turn their backs on the gift. People can still reject Christ, reject the gift of redemption, reject Grace, and reject the crucifixion. This rejection does not supersede the redemption of the crucifixion, but it certainly prevents the ultimate salvation God desires for us all.
As far as I can tell, it’s an issue of the bigger picture. And while I may not be a Biblical scholar with a PhD, I am confident in my understanding of the Scripture, my humble knowledge of Church teachings, and the way it all comes together with this homily and our role in Christ’s Church.
Wednesday’s Gospel speaks to us about the disciples who prevented a person from outside their group from doing good. “They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”:
Is this what Jesus said??? No, it isn't...Here's what Jesus really said:
Luk 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
Luk 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
Do you see how your pope twisted the scriptures and perverted the entire message???
Jesus did NOT say to unite with people who do good works...Jesus said to unite with people who do what they do IN JESUS' NAME...ONLY those who believe on Jesus...Your pope forgot to mention this...Definately no atheists or muzlims regardless of how many good works they do...
The message is to work for World peace outside of Jesus Christ...Your pope want unity with your religion and all the religions of the word and falsly claims that mankind is already redeemed in the eyes of God...A more untru statement has never been made...There will be no World peace and folks need to wise up to that idea...
And then it really gets sickening...
“Instead,” the Pope continued, “the Lord has created us in His image and likeness, and has given us this commandment in the depths of our heart: do good and do not do evil”:
"Today is [the feast of] Santa Rita, Patron Saint of impossible things – but this seems impossible: let us ask of her this grace, this grace that all, all, all people would do good and that we would encounter one another in this work, which is a work of creation, like the creation of the Father. A work of the family, because we are all children of God, all of us, all of us! And God loves us, all of us! May Santa Rita grant us this grace, which seems almost impossible. Amen.”
No one...Absolutely no one can provide grace from heaven other than Jesus Christ our Lord...No saint can provide grace...AND, he doesn't hand it out thru other people...
What is really, I mean REALLY sickening is, is when some who call themselves Christian spend every waking hour anonymously attacking other Christians instead of getting out into the world and confronting Muslims, abortionists, atheist politicians, and Mexican cartels, communists, bone-thug gang members and demon spirits, to bring about their conversion. I'm sure you will agree that the Apostles did exactly that (though the names have changed) and we are called to do the same.
Peace be with you
I am not attacking anyone but I am confronting those who walk hand in hand with atheists and muzlims who think they are all in the same boat with your popes and Jesus...If you agree with your pope, that apparently that includes you as well...
It is telling that you do attack those who do worship the Triune Christian God, but not the way you have chosen, yet don't push yourself away from the keyboard to confront true evil. I will concede that other Christians are much safer targets.
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)
And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. (2 Corinthians 5:15)
So, I agree with you...no atheists or Muslims..because they have not accepted Christ. The Pope is not saying that they are saved. He is saying what Paul says above...that he died for all.
However, I absolutely agree that, although not his intention, what he says sends the wrong message...and I do find that troubling. It doesn't make me waver in the Catholic Faith however.
http://orthodoxyandheterodoxy.org/2013/05/23/did-pope-francis-say-everyone-will-be-saved-by-doing-good/
“What is really, I mean REALLY sickening is, is when some who call themselves Christian spend every waking hour anonymously attacking other Christians”
You shouldn’t assume he spends every hour fixing up Catholics. We are called to confront error whenever we see it, “in season and out of season.” This stuff by “Papa” Francis is certainly pandering to the world. The works of the atheists and muslims will never save them, nor can we ever be united with them on such a ground.
2Co_6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
I assume nothing. You shouldn't either. The two of you aren't the first to bend your picks attacking the Church and, unfortunately, won't be the last. Fortunately, none have or will harm the Church. Quod est demonstratum.
Peace be with you
“The two of you aren’t the first to bend your picks attacking the Church and, unfortunately, won’t be the last.”
As long as Popes bend their picks against the sacred words of the Holy Bible, a Christian will be there to fight against it. Unfortunately, there’s never a last time.
I would recommend that you read Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra's novel "Don Quixote" to see how your little effort plays out.
Peace be with you
First, let me correct yet another incorrect assumption. He is not “my Pope.” I am not Roman Catholic.
Just because someone engages in conversation about matters Catholic does not make one Roman Catholic. You would do well to remember that.
In addition, you willfully ignore my point. You might consider reading what I posted again, since you took away from it that I am something I am not, and that I said something I did not.
Yes, but it is SO VERY IMPORTANT to prove that THEIR brand of Christianity is the right one, because all the others just suck.
And we wonder why outsiders dislike Christians. Seriously.
Well said, Natural Law.
Redemption is future...No one is redeemed, yet...
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
And it is our bodies that will be redeemed, when we are given an immortal body...
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
As you can see, redemption is only for those who have trusted in and believed Jesus for their salvation...No athesists or muzlims...
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
But your pope says,
The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ
No, no the Lord has NOT redeemed all of us...And he will not redeem all of us...Your pope is putting all people into the same hat and of course this creates a huge anti-biblical problem...
Jesus is the Redeemer but that redemption is only given to those who trust in Jesus...And, that redemption is what takes place when we Christians are 'changed'...When we take on the body type of Jesus...The immortal body...Redemption is NOT given to the people of the World...
Well, first, this is not universalism. It might appear to be so if you don’t know that there is a difference in traditional Christian theology between being saved and being redeemed. The redemption that Christ accomplished through the incarnation, cross and resurrection was for all of human nature, and so it is quite correct to say “The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ.” Redemption is something that happens for human nature, which is why all will be resurrected in the end and why all are capable of doing good.
While Jesus Christ is the Redemption for all of mankind, ONLY those who trust in Christ will be redeemed...So it is NOT correct to say that Christ redeemed all of us...
What the writer fails to tell you is that while 'all' will be resurrected in the end, many (most) will be resurrected to the Judgment and then cast into outer darkness...And THOSE who are have not nor will they be redeemed...
This orthodox writer is just plain wrong if he is trying to tell someone what the scriptures say about the topic...
Someone may be redeemed and not be saved. Someone may be redeemed and not do good. Someone may also be redeemed, do good and yet not be saved.
This is completely unbiblical...None of it is true...Your duo religion has twisted the meaning of redemption with justification...
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Justification = we
Redemption = is in Christ Jesus...
Jesus is the Redemption that allows us to be justified...To call us redeemed distorts the bible out of any sense of truth...
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