Posted on 04/28/2013 8:56:28 AM PDT by markomalley
When anti-Catholic ecumenical atrocities take place, Catholic bishops should act.
Here is an example which calls for consequences.
From WTAX in Kentucky:
Kentucky woman ordained as priest in defiance of Roman Catholic Church [Note either the carelessness or the bias? She was not ordained as anything.]
By Mary Wisniewski
LOUISVILLE, Kentucky (Reuters) – In an emotional ceremony filled with tears and applause, a 70-year-old Kentucky woman was ordained a priest [No. She went through a fake ceremony.] on Saturday as part of a dissident group operating outside of official Roman Catholic Church authority. [Liberals often use the word
When anti-Catholic ecumenical atrocities take place, Catholic bishops should act.
Here is an example which calls for consequences.
From WTAX in Kentucky:
Kentucky woman ordained as priest in defiance of Roman Catholic Church [Note either the carelessness or the bias? She was not ordained as anything.]
By Mary Wisniewski
LOUISVILLE, Kentucky (Reuters) – In an emotional ceremony filled with tears and applause, a 70-year-old Kentucky woman was ordained a priest [No. She went through a fake ceremony.] on Saturday as part of a dissident group operating outside of official Roman Catholic Church authority. [Liberals often use the word "official" as code. Watch for code.]
Rosemarie Smead is one of about 150 women around the world who have decided not to wait for the Roman Catholic Church to lift its ban on women priests, but to be ordained and start their own congregations.
In an interview before the ceremony, Smead said she is not worried about being excommunicated from the Church – the fate of other women ordained outside of Vatican law.
“It has no sting for me,” said Smead, a petite, gray-haired former Carmelite nun with a ready hug for strangers. [What slop.] “It is a Medieval bullying stick the bishops used to keep control over people and to keep the voices of women silent. I am way beyond letting octogenarian men tell us how to live our lives.” [Wayyyy beyond.]
The ordination of women as priests, along with the issues of married priests and birth control, represents one of the big divides between U.S. Catholics and the Vatican hierarchy. [And it is the writer's objective to widen the divide. Note also how the "issues" are not easily related.] Seventy percent of U.S. Catholics believe that women should be allowed to be priests, according to a New York Times/CBS News poll earlier this year.
The former pope, Benedict XVI, reaffirmed the Catholic Church’s ban on women priests ["ban on women priests" requires the premise that there is such a thing as a woman priest. There isn't.] and warned that he would not tolerate disobedience by clerics on fundamental teachings. Male priests have been stripped of their holy orders [No. That's impossible. Holy Orders confer an indelible mark on the soul that can't be "stripped". They have been "stripped" of permission to function as a priest.] for participating in ordination ceremonies for women.
In a statement last week, Louisville Archbishop Joseph E. Kurtz called the planned ceremony by the Association of Roman Catholic Women Priests a “simulated ordination” in opposition to Catholic teaching.
“The simulation of a sacrament carries very serious penal sanctions in Church law, and Catholics should not support or participate in Saturday’s event,” Kurtz said.
The Catholic Church teaches that it has no authority to allow women to be priests because Jesus Christ chose only men as his apostles. Proponents of a female priesthood said Jesus was acting only according to the customs of his time.
They also note that he chose women, like Mary Magdalene, as disciples, and that the early Church had women priests, deacons and bishops. [Which is not true.]
[HERE, folks, is a big problem....] The ceremony, held at St. Andrew United Church of Christ in Louisville, was attended by about 200 men and women. Many identified themselves to a Reuters reporter as Catholics, but some declined to give their names or their churches.
[...]
The rest of the piece is rubbish.
Here’s the bottom line. Antics like this should have consequences for ecumenical dialogue.
The women’s ordination thing is silliness. It is a circus.
A Protestant church hosted the circus. They gave the Catholic Church the finger.
There should be consequences.
We either take ecumenism seriously or we don’t. If we do – and I believe we must – we have to react strongly when ecumenical ideals are so grossly violated by Protestants who invite or permit these “women priest” ceremonies in their churches.
The most sacred rites of the Catholic Church are Holy Mass and ordination to Holy Orders.
They effectively trampled rites that we Catholics hold as sacred.
These silly Catholic women-priest supporters are committing sacrilege in simulating Mass and Orders.
However, the Protestants who host them are assisting in a mockery of our Holy Mass and a mockery of our priesthood.
For a long time progressivist Catholics were staging Jewish sedar meals in their churches. Some Jews were angered by this. We got the message from the Jews and stopped doing what was offensive to them.
By allowing this group of fakers into their churches, those Protestants accepted the premise that what those women play at is actually a Catholic ordination and a Mass.
How dare PROTESTANTS decide what a Catholic Mass is?
And if they respond, “Gee, we mean no disrespect. We are just giving space to this group”, then what they are doing is aiding a protest against the Catholic Church.
There is no way around this.
Protestants who give these fakers aid are either on their side, and thus support their claim that what they are doing really is an ordination and Mass, or in claiming not to be taking sides they are still giving support to an anti-Catholic protest.
Bishops have to take action when offensive, anti-Catholic things like this take place.
Upon hearing the news that this ceremony is going to take place (or has taken place), the local Catholic bishop must call the pastor of that Protestant parish and say, “I’m the Catholic Bishop. Do not allow this sacrilege to be committed in your church. You wouldn’t do this for a group of dissident Jews wanting to ordain rabbis, but we are Catholics so you don’t care what offense you give us. Until an apology is issued, don’t look for us to dialogue with you again.”
Then that Catholic bishop should call the head of the denomination and convey the same message.
Then that Catholic Bishop should an informative note to the USCCB’s ecumenical office, to the CDF and to the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity to let them know the facts of the sacrileges that took place and who helped them.
Then that Catholic bishop should call the press and give them his view about the offense the Protestants gave and the damage they inflicted on ecumenical dialogue.
True ecumenism does not consist in lying down and letting some other church kick you and define what Mass is for you, or say who can be ordained, or stick their “F-You” finger in your face by hosting these sacrilegious fakers."official" as code. Watch for code.]
Rosemarie Smead is one of about 150 women around the world who have decided not to wait for the Roman Catholic Church to lift its ban on women priests, but to be ordained and start their own congregations.
In an interview before the ceremony, Smead said she is not worried about being excommunicated from the Church – the fate of other women ordained outside of Vatican law.
“It has no sting for me,” said Smead, a petite, gray-haired former Carmelite nun with a ready hug for strangers. [What slop.] “It is a Medieval bullying stick the bishops used to keep control over people and to keep the voices of women silent. I am way beyond letting octogenarian men tell us how to live our lives.” [Wayyyy beyond.]
The ordination of women as priests, along with the issues of married priests and birth control, represents one of the big divides between U.S. Catholics and the Vatican hierarchy. [And it is the writer's objective to widen the divide. Note also how the "issues" are not easily related.] Seventy percent of U.S. Catholics believe that women should be allowed to be priests, according to a New York Times/CBS News poll earlier this year.
The former pope, Benedict XVI, reaffirmed the Catholic Church’s ban on women priests ["ban on women priests" requires the premise that there is such a thing as a woman priest. There isn't.] and warned that he would not tolerate disobedience by clerics on fundamental teachings. Male priests have been stripped of their holy orders [No. That's impossible. Holy Orders confer an indelible mark on the soul that can't be "stripped". They have been "stripped" of permission to function as a priest.] for participating in ordination ceremonies for women.
In a statement last week, Louisville Archbishop Joseph E. Kurtz called the planned ceremony by the Association of Roman Catholic Women Priests a “simulated ordination” in opposition to Catholic teaching.
“The simulation of a sacrament carries very serious penal sanctions in Church law, and Catholics should not support or participate in Saturday’s event,” Kurtz said.
The Catholic Church teaches that it has no authority to allow women to be priests because Jesus Christ chose only men as his apostles. Proponents of a female priesthood said Jesus was acting only according to the customs of his time.
They also note that he chose women, like Mary Magdalene, as disciples, and that the early Church had women priests, deacons and bishops. [Which is not true.]
[HERE, folks, is a big problem....] The ceremony, held at St. Andrew United Church of Christ in Louisville, was attended by about 200 men and women. Many identified themselves to a Reuters reporter as Catholics, but some declined to give their names or their churches.
[...]
The rest of the piece is rubbish.
Here’s the bottom line. Antics like this should have consequences for ecumenical dialogue.
The women’s ordination thing is silliness. It is a circus.
A Protestant church hosted the circus. They gave the Catholic Church the finger.
There should be consequences.
We either take ecumenism seriously or we don’t. If we do – and I believe we must – we have to react strongly when ecumenical ideals are so grossly violated by Protestants who invite or permit these “women priest” ceremonies in their churches.
The most sacred rites of the Catholic Church are Holy Mass and ordination to Holy Orders.
They effectively trampled rites that we Catholics hold as sacred.
These silly Catholic women-priest supporters are committing sacrilege in simulating Mass and Orders.
However, the Protestants who host them are assisting in a mockery of our Holy Mass and a mockery of our priesthood.
For a long time progressivist Catholics were staging Jewish sedar meals in their churches. Some Jews were angered by this. We got the message from the Jews and stopped doing what was offensive to them.
By allowing this group of fakers into their churches, those Protestants accepted the premise that what those women play at is actually a Catholic ordination and a Mass.
How dare PROTESTANTS decide what a Catholic Mass is?
And if they respond, “Gee, we mean no disrespect. We are just giving space to this group”, then what they are doing is aiding a protest against the Catholic Church.
There is no way around this.
Protestants who give these fakers aid are either on their side, and thus support their claim that what they are doing really is an ordination and Mass, or in claiming not to be taking sides they are still giving support to an anti-Catholic protest.
Bishops have to take action when offensive, anti-Catholic things like this take place.
Upon hearing the news that this ceremony is going to take place (or has taken place), the local Catholic bishop must call the pastor of that Protestant parish and say, “I’m the Catholic Bishop. Do not allow this sacrilege to be committed in your church. You wouldn’t do this for a group of dissident Jews wanting to ordain rabbis, but we are Catholics so you don’t care what offense you give us. Until an apology is issued, don’t look for us to dialogue with you again.”
Then that Catholic bishop should call the head of the denomination and convey the same message.
Then that Catholic Bishop should an informative note to the USCCB’s ecumenical office, to the CDF and to the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity to let them know the facts of the sacrileges that took place and who helped them.
Then that Catholic bishop should call the press and give them his view about the offense the Protestants gave and the damage they inflicted on ecumenical dialogue.
True ecumenism does not consist in lying down and letting some other church kick you and define what Mass is for you, or say who can be ordained, or stick their “F-You” finger in your face by hosting these sacrilegious fakers.
So you do admit that your earlier statement “burning incense” was wrong?
Jesus shed blood was enough and put an end to the system of sacrifices.
Catholic Priests do not "offer sacrifice." They re-present the original one of Christ.
Jesus said at the last supper to "Do this in memory of me."
To a Jew of that time those words have specific meaning. He said them during the Passover. Jews, to this day believe that in celebrating the Passover, they are participating in the original one. So when Jesus says to celebrate the Eucharist, He is saying we participate in that original one.
Please do not take my word for this go to the website "askmoses.com" and as them what they believe about the original and current Passover celebration. They do not view them as separate events.
Well...that’s why Pride is a sin that God warns us so about...it’s destructive.... and keeps us away from the truth He wants us to know, and the relationship He desires we have with Him.
Maybe a thread sometime about “Pride” and how it interfers with Gods best for us might be possible along the way, especially regarding the things we choose to ‘believe in’.
Same with what we Believe...for I have found what a person ‘Believes” in can be very different then what they “think”.
There's nothing unscriptural about vestments. God commanded that they be used in the Old Testament. Look at Exodus 28:2. Catholic Feast/Memorial Days are days set aside to remember important people and events through the course of Our faith - Christmas, Easter, Pentecost, Christ the King, etc.
You forgot forget about the many passages where the Lord commands the making of statues. For example: "And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:18–20).
David gave Solomon the plan "for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18–19). David’s plan for the temple, which the biblical author tells us was "by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all," included statues of angels.
Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, "On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim."
Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as it helps to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the illiterate. Do you instruct children in Bible Study using books without pictures?
Maybe we should just define “true Protestant” as anyone who calls themselves Christian yet rejects the Catholic Church’s teachings. After all, the people you mentioned (and more) all at least have in common the fact that they hate Catholicism.
Wait, that’ll just put us back where we started...< sigh > ...it’s so difficult to please those who hate the Church.
Good thing we’re all conservatives who reject “political correctness” though! < /sarc >
Then those folks aren’t historic Protestants either. By the way, the word Evangelical, much like Protestant or Christian, has been stripped of its historic meaning. Rob Bell is labeled Evangelical and so am I. Even so I probably have less in common with Rob than I do with some conservative Catholics, yet I hold essentially the same view of the RCC, popery and Catholic priesthood as Luther, Calvin, Knox, Edwards and Spurgeon.
Scripture clearly teaches that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone. Erasmus correctly recognized that was the heart of Luther’s protest. Historic Protestants were united on this point.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.” (Ephesians 2:8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9mQW5YfV54
Yes, I do realize that God commanded images to be made on occasion.
I suppose that it depends on the whose idea it was and what it’s for to some extent.
Even if the part about not making images can be debated due to other examples such as you gave, there’s still the problem of the *bowing down to* part.
Bowing is bowing. Someone kneels down or stands in front of a statue and bows their head to it, they are bowing, something that is commanded to NOT be done.
And I’ve seen enough prayers to Mary that are outright idolatrous. Not simply requests to her to pray for people but prayers to her FOR things and asking HER to answer and grant them.
I don’t know anyone who bows down or worships photographs of their mother. If they did, I don’t think there’d be a person around who wouldn’t recognize that there was something wrong with that.
Yeah, my mistake.
My mind was remembering candles, but fingers typed incense. Don’t know why that happened.
LOL It also disagrees with Islam, Catholicism, Mormon, and many other religions. I follow scripture, not “true Protestants” or other carnally constructed “religion”. Protestantism was birthed by Catholicism and many of the errors of Catholicism were carried with it. I follow scripture not “religions”.
Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3: So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4: And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Show me where I connected Tamuz with Christmas. I didn’t because Tamuz is not connected to Christmas. Do understand the post before shooting false assumptions.
I’m saying the RCC form of religion is. Clear enough? God spoke rather clearly about using what the pagans did to serve Him.
Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods
Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Can you show from scripture all the vestments, rituals, feast days and symbols from Catholicism that God commanded or were they added by the RCC?
>> Btw, Baal wasn't the sun god of the ancient Semitic peoples.<<
Once again trying to put words into what I said. The Semitic god was El who was supposedly the father of Baal the god of the Canaanites and Phoenicians. Trying to deflect is rather lame.
Wow! The twisting of words surely doesn’t come from the one true God. Christ is not a rehashing of Tamuz. Incorporating the worship of Tamuz into the worship of Christ is however what God was speaking to in Deuteronomy 12. The RCC has clearly adopted the pagan ways.
Luke 20:45 As all the people were listening, Jesus said to his disciples, 46 "Beware of the experts in the law. They like walking around in long robes, and they love elaborate greetings in the marketplaces and the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. 47 They devour widows' property, and as a show make long prayers. They will receive a more severe punishment." Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go.
When Jesus came to earth and died on the cross, the Temple curtain was ripped from top to bottom signifying that the ritual of human priestly mediation between God and man was OVER!
Bowing is matanoia. We don't bow to statues ... we bow to God. Some of older fogies were taught as children to bow our head each time the name of "Jesus" is mentioned in a prayer. We still do that, out of love and respect for our Savior.
I’ve seen enough prayers to Mary that are outright idolatrous. Not simply requests to her to pray for people but prayers to her FOR things and asking HER to answer and grant them.
Let's take a look at the Hail Mary prayer. The prayer begins, "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee." This is nothing other than the greeting the angel Gabriel gave Mary in Luke 1:28 (Confraternity Version). The next part reads this way: "Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus." This was exactly what Mary’s cousin Elizabeth said to her in Luke 1:42. The only thing that has been added to these two verses are the names "Jesus" and "Mary," to make clear who is being referred to. So the first part of the Hail Mary is entirely biblical.
The second part of the Hail Mary is not taken straight from Scripture, but it is entirely biblical in the thoughts it expresses. It reads: "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen."
Praying for each other is simply part of what Christians do. As we see, in 1 Timothy 2:1–4, Paul strongly encouraged Christians to intercede for many different things, and that passage is by no means unique in his writings. Elsewhere Paul directly asks others to pray for him (Rom. 15:30–32, Eph. 6:18–20, Col. 4:3, 1 Thess. 5:25, 2 Thess. 3:1), and he assured them that he was praying for them as well (2 Thess. 1:11). Most fundamentally, Jesus himself required us to pray for others, and not only for those who asked us to do so (Matt. 5:44).
The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus in Psalms 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2).
Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, we read: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).
And those in heaven who offer to God our prayers aren’t just angels, but humans as well. John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). The simple fact is, as this passage shows: The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.
We know from Scripture that Jesus responded to His mother's request at the Wedding Feast of Cana. She is a powerful intercessor who always points towards her Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus honored His mother; Catholics follow His lead. With his dying breath, Jesus entrusted His mother to all us from the cross. Who better to have praying for you than the Mother of God.
Say CB where is the stuff you are preaching taught?
Has this been hidden from the People of God for 2,000 years and just a tiny select few privy?
Is there any mainstream seminary or teaching institution that anyone can verify your teachings in?
>> “Say CB where is the stuff you are preaching taught?” <<
.
It’s taught by the Holy Spirit, by reading the word of Yehova aloud. (Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of Yehova)
.
>> “Has this been hidden from the People of God for 2,000 years and just a tiny select few privy?” <<
.
It certainly has not been hidden by Yehova, but by Mystery Babylon, the Mystery of Iniquity, that operates every church and seminary on Earth. The Harlot and her daughters.
We are called out of the hovels of harlotry that you advocate here, to explore Torah, the scriptures from which Yeshua taught every point of doctrine (when he said “It is written...).
But it is true that few there be that find it! Narrow is the path that leads to the Kingdom of Yehova. Broad is the path of Mystery Babylon, that leads to destruction.
So, celebrate your worldly seminaries, Ha-Satan does too!
Scripture. You didn’t recognize the verses sited?
>> Has this been hidden from the People of God for 2,000 years<<
Oh no, it hasn’t been hidden from the people of God at all. The RCC has often attempted to martyr them out of existence but failed.
>> and just a tiny select few privy?<<
As a matter of fact scripture says exactly that doesn’t it.
Matthew 7:14 Because narrow is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it. >> Is there any mainstream seminary or teaching institution that anyone can verify your teachings in?<<
Mainstream? Did you think God was kidding in Mathew 7:14?
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