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To: NYer

Yes, I do realize that God commanded images to be made on occasion.

I suppose that it depends on the whose idea it was and what it’s for to some extent.

Even if the part about not making images can be debated due to other examples such as you gave, there’s still the problem of the *bowing down to* part.

Bowing is bowing. Someone kneels down or stands in front of a statue and bows their head to it, they are bowing, something that is commanded to NOT be done.

And I’ve seen enough prayers to Mary that are outright idolatrous. Not simply requests to her to pray for people but prayers to her FOR things and asking HER to answer and grant them.

I don’t know anyone who bows down or worships photographs of their mother. If they did, I don’t think there’d be a person around who wouldn’t recognize that there was something wrong with that.


129 posted on 04/29/2013 5:26:11 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
Bowing is bowing. Someone kneels down or stands in front of a statue and bows their head to it ...

Bowing is matanoia. We don't bow to statues ... we bow to God. Some of older fogies were taught as children to bow our head each time the name of "Jesus" is mentioned in a prayer. We still do that, out of love and respect for our Savior.

I’ve seen enough prayers to Mary that are outright idolatrous. Not simply requests to her to pray for people but prayers to her FOR things and asking HER to answer and grant them.

Let's take a look at the Hail Mary prayer. The prayer begins, "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee." This is nothing other than the greeting the angel Gabriel gave Mary in Luke 1:28 (Confraternity Version). The next part reads this way: "Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus." This was exactly what Mary’s cousin Elizabeth said to her in Luke 1:42. The only thing that has been added to these two verses are the names "Jesus" and "Mary," to make clear who is being referred to. So the first part of the Hail Mary is entirely biblical.

The second part of the Hail Mary is not taken straight from Scripture, but it is entirely biblical in the thoughts it expresses. It reads: "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen."

Praying for each other is simply part of what Christians do. As we see, in 1 Timothy 2:1–4, Paul strongly encouraged Christians to intercede for many different things, and that passage is by no means unique in his writings. Elsewhere Paul directly asks others to pray for him (Rom. 15:30–32, Eph. 6:18–20, Col. 4:3, 1 Thess. 5:25, 2 Thess. 3:1), and he assured them that he was praying for them as well (2 Thess. 1:11). Most fundamentally, Jesus himself required us to pray for others, and not only for those who asked us to do so (Matt. 5:44).

The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus in Psalms 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2).

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, we read: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

And those in heaven who offer to God our prayers aren’t just angels, but humans as well. John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). The simple fact is, as this passage shows: The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

We know from Scripture that Jesus responded to His mother's request at the Wedding Feast of Cana. She is a powerful intercessor who always points towards her Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus honored His mother; Catholics follow His lead. With his dying breath, Jesus entrusted His mother to all us from the cross. Who better to have praying for you than the Mother of God.

136 posted on 04/29/2013 6:43:01 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: metmom; NYer
Someone needs to look up the words "intercession" and "mediation" in the dictionary.

PS it is not the Catholic.

141 posted on 04/29/2013 7:43:25 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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