New experiments on Shroud show it’s not medieval (dates to 1st century)

Vatican Insider ^ | March 26, 2013 | ANDREA TORNIELLI

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

Endlessly fascinating.

As someone who has done 3D modeling, I find the fact that the image is a 3D terrain map breathtaking.

The image was formed by scorching. For the image to vary in intensity, it is most likely that the scorch is the most intense, the closer it was to the body, and vice versa.

Moreover, the shround would not have been laying on the body!

The cloth would have had to have been flattened, and (probably suspended) a specific distance from the body.

Imagine being the two NASA scientists who first fed this 2D "terrain map" into a NASA terrain analyzer, back in the early seventies, and seeing this:

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

I don't get it. I care nothing for a piece of cloth purported to be 2000 years old. Dec. 9, 2009 on the side of a mountain, during a snow storm, bleeding out after a fall explained everything I ever needed to know, and told me how strong my faith was.

No one said you had to care about it.

But if you're a Christian, I don't know why you wouldn't be curious about what could potentially be Christ's burial cloth.

Besides yourslf, there are other people in the world who can benefit from this, like the atheistic scientists who studied it, and became Christians.

[newfreep]

I visited northern Italy a few years ago on a business trip and my host took me to dinner in Turin on a Sat night. I was quite surprised at how large the downtown area where the church was located. I also noticed how wide the sidewalks were with the overhangs from the storefronts. Much larger town than I anticipated.

I could only walk by the church but still got an amazing feeling knowing how close i was to His shroud.

To any doubters, consider that in > 2000 years, technology has not been able to duplicate the shroud and its’ 3-D image.

Add the fact we are in a world obviously created by an “Intelligent Designer”, it should be a no-brainer to believe except for satan and his followers.

....and even satan believes in God/Christ!

[Caipirabob]

I’m just glad you’re alive...

[verga]

Lovely, except the carbon dating dated the shroud to medieval times. Until someone redates the shroud using carbon dating and overturns the previous results, the matter is closed, as far as I’m concerned.

I have been told by people much smarter than I am that the issue with Carbon dating something like this is the exposure that it has had to the elements over the years. If you have a bone or fossil which has been buried for X number of years it has not received fresh contamination which would distort the findings.

[NYer]

Wow ... thank you for sharing your visit in such vivid detail.

When we arrived our bus had trouble finding a place to park. Finally, we found one but a small Italian car was just blocking us, no matter in the spirit of Peter Sellers, six of us picked the car up and moved it back 5 feet.

Lol ... Fiat 500! The price of fuel in Italy has always been high, even back in the 70's. The "cinque cento" was a valuable asset, not only for low gas consumption but also when it came to parking. I know of one woman in Naples whose 500 was constantly burglarized. She decided to install a triple alarm system. The first one would trip an audible alarm. If the thief was able to bypass that, the second one locked the engine. And, should anyone be able to bypass that one, the third alarm was a self destruct mechanism.

Since I worked for an international airline back then, I traveled frequently to Italy. Those memories are as fresh today as yours. Again, thanks for sharing the experience.

[annalex]

The cloth would have had to have been flattened, and (probably suspended) a specific distance from the body.

This is how Swordmaster explained the burial in Palestine in antiquity. The body was placed in a rectangular grave cut in stone. The herbs and flowers were place on top forming a nearly flat fragile surface, sufficient to support the cloth. The cloth was placed on top of the flowers and was more or less flat.

[annalex]

Swordmaster explained

Should be Swordmaker. My apologies.

[Melian]

If I may jump in, the Gospels tell us that Christ often used tangibles to illustrate a point or work a miracle. I’m reminded of the mud He used to cure a blind man’s eyes. Obviously, He didn’t need to use tangible materials to work a miracle, because we know He often cured people with just a word. I think there is scriptural evidence that Christ used whatever means necessary to reach the hearts of those around Him. Some people needed to see, hear, or touch the evidence to be able to open up their hearts and minds.

As I see it, the Shroud, the Sacraments (outward signs instituted by Christ to give grace), the Mass, are all here as part of God’s divine plan to reach out to us on as many levels as possible. I believe the Shroud was left on Earth by Christ to continue to confound and challenge us. No one who studies the image on the shroud leaves without a greater appreciation of the Crucifixion. That is a tremendous gift in itself.

[left that other site]

Now THAT’S REALLY COOL!

[left that other site]

Indeed.

A Medieval Forgery would have reflected the Conventional Iconic Images of Jesus.

The nails, for example, would have been in the center of the palms, not the wrists. The face would have been more European than Semitic, and there would have been other details that would have been in line with contemporary interpretation of the Gospels.

The Shroud, compared to other Liturgical Art of the Medieval period, is just plain DIFFERENT. A forger would have made sure to have his image conform to the accepted norms in order for his “counterfeit” to pass muster.

If I were to make my own Twenties, for example, I would NOT put Obama on them. :-)

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“I don’t get it.”

I do. Maybe you should try harder to understand.

“I care nothing for a piece of cloth purported to be 2000 years old.”

It’s Christ’s burial shroud. It’s not a “piece of cloth purported to be 2000 years old.”

“Dec. 9, 2009 on the side of a mountain, during a snow storm, bleeding out after a fall explained everything I ever needed to know, and told me how strong my faith was.”

So you needed a special life threatening event to realize what you should have known anyway? And some people need or just like to have the affirmation that the shroud offers them. So what’s it to you if that’s the case?

[fatima]

Thanks maine-iac7,Good meditation for Passion week.

[M Kehoe]

Good morning. Good to see your moniker. I hope you are doing well.

5.56mm

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

This is how Swordmaster explained the burial in Palestine in antiquity.

Wow! I wasn't aware of that. Thanks.

The image below depicts the burial process that I was familiar with:

If this was the case, the Shroud would have had to have been suspended in mid-air, but Swordmaster's explanation seems more plausible, and in conformity with Jewish custom.

[Slyfox]

The more they look the more they find.

It is like looking into infinity.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

It is like looking into infinity.

And you still hear people dismiss it as a medieval painting.

[Slyfox]

It is irritating when people who should know better ignore empirical evidence.

I once had dealings with the nuclear physicist who discovered some of the the most interesting ideas about the image.

He was a professor at the Air Force Academy and said that when he realized after testing the image of the face using his NASA equipment that there was only one conclusion - that the image was made at the point at which the figure came through the cloth - as in a resurrection.

That idea sure makes for some great meditation.

[Jack of all Trades]

Has anybody thought to ask if FT-IR or Raman spectroscopy are applicable for dating anthropological samples? I have, I Googled it and came up with bupkis. Perhaps it doesn’t matter. It’s published in a book and it gives a number that some people want to hear. Still, I’d like to read about the method if it exists.

[steve86]

Bless you. God spoke to you through the Shroud. I didn’t take related supernatural experiences into account in my comment!

Still, I don’t think many Catholics’ continuing faith is contingent on the authenticity of any one particular relic.