Posted on 11/28/2012 6:00:38 PM PST by Colofornian
http://www.lds.org/church/news/mormonor ... c?lang=eng
How about being straight up and saying that Mormons put on costumes and chant rituals in secret buildings that only 10% of gross earnings paid as "tithes" allow entrance?
Mormonism wants people to think they are normal that they are just Christians like everyone else. Each year they get rid of more and more of their embarrassing doctrines - or doctrines that aren't politically correct anymore. Apologist attack dogs fight any critics on technicalities.
Mormonism has one thing that works for them - and that is the funneling of cash from members to the Cult coffers. This is done through mandatory tithe. And in order to make this tithe work - and make the member believe in the Cult enough to pay - they have to have the secret temple ceremonies. You have to put a ton of make believe in there.
Stephen R. Donaldson is one of my favorite authors. In one of his series of books he explained how a great and noble group of leaders were slowly corrupted through the centuries by simple infiltration of ideas. The ideas changed the group slowly until they went from helping people to human sacrifices. The new leaders of the group knew what was going on - but they surrounded themselves with those who only had faith - not knowledge. Those who had faith were much stronger because they were driven by the new cult. Those who held faith were much easier to control.
Pondering the story Donaldson had written I saw the same manifested in the Cult of Mormonism. If you have members who are so convinced you are the one and only true Cult, they will not hesitate to open their pocketbooks and hand over everything. Mormonism needs this kind of special, secret, garment wearing, new name, pay lay ale - in order to keep the tithes flowing. If the cat is out of the bag, the tithing will stop.
So the reality is there is a certain point where Mormonism must stop moving towards Christianity - it has to because money is ultimately the top priority of the Cult. Money - Power - Control.
Look at all the recovery boards right now - even the NOM boards. What is the #1 topic right now because of upcoming December? Tithing. Tithing. Tithing. Oh and don't forget tithing. Sign up for tithing settlement. And don't forget to sign up for tithing settlement.
“All of our messaging is focused on helping people understand that Mormons are Christian,”
Naw, Mormonism isn't a Christian church. It's a secretive Cult with very cultish practices and it has to stay that way - or go broke.
You are headed out into the weeds here.
Things such as spirits and afterlife etc. are not provable by empirical evidence. They are matters of faith.
My issue here was/is the LDS church seeking to cozy up to muslims. Why? Muslims are savages and their prophet was a psychopath-sociopath.
I don’t necessarily have an issue with some of the LDS peculiar practices such as baptizing the dead. Its a little strange to say the least, but they are not out in the world killing people and causing mayhem while chanting “allah akbar”.
While I am not a mormon nor am I interested in becoming one, I have read enough of their material to know that nowhere in any of their texts is war, murder, theft, advocated. Nor is the threat of death in the here and now used to convert someone into a mormon.
Spirit prisons and heavens and any of that is implied as tenents of their faith. There is no way to prove any of it. One has to take it on faith.....or not, as a matter of faith.
You overlook the free will of the individual. And my point was that muslims use the threat of death in the here and now to achieve converts. The LDS use psy-ops. For the intelligent individual psy-ops are much more limited in their effectiveness. The threat of physical harm is not psy-op.
Btw, your comments here do NOT align with what your leaders have taught. This is what is so ironic. Apparently I agree -- at least with the general premises of these Lds leaders as mentioned below -- which contradict your statements above.
If a 'counterfeit' person was using your name online -- and has some attributes similar to you -- does it make it 'you' if it's 'close enough?'
| Mormon Leader General Premises about 'Jesus' we actually agree with! | Summary or Scriptural Summary |
| LDS "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie essentially answered the question before the development of the Internet world: "A false Christ is NOT a person. It is a false system of worship, a false church, a false cult that says, 'Lo, here is salvation, here is the doctrine of Christ. Come and believe thus and so, and ye shall be saved.' It is any concept or philosophy that says that redemption, salvation, sanctification, justification, and all of the promised rewards can be gained in any way except that set forth by the [LDS] apostles and prophets." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, The Millennial Messiah: The Second Coming of the Son of Man, p. 48) | You know, there actually are times we agree with the general premises (but not specific applications) of Mormon leaders like Bruce McConkie! And, even though McConkie was referencing all those outside of Mormonism --ya gotta understand that the Lds church teaches that their church is "the only true and living church on the face of the earth" (Lds Doctrines & Covenants 1:30-- what McConkie says does apply to false systems, false churches, and false cults! |
| Therefore, citing Mormon leaders above & below: How important is it that people don't "misunderstand" who Jesus is? | The New Testament discusses 'another Jesus' (2 Corinthians 11:3-4)...2 Cor. 11:4 -- "For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached..." |
| Per this BYU prof, 'tis very important we don't 'know' another Jesus! "There is NO SALVATION in false doctrine, NO REDEEMING POWER IN MISUNDERSTANDING ABOUT JESUS CHRIST." (BYU associate professor W. Jeffrey Marsh, "Doctrine of Christ restored to the world," Church News, Jan. 3, 2004, p. 6) | 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Jesus, Matthew 24:23-24) |
| Per Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie: * "There is no such thing as gaining salvation from a false god, or by conforming to a false plan of salvation, or through membership in a false church." (Lds Official magazine Ensign (Conference edition), "The Caravan Moves On," Nov.1984, p. 83) *"There is no salvation in believing any false doctrine, particularly a false or unwise view about the Godhead or any of its members. Eternal life is reserved for those who know God and the One whom he sent to work out the infinite and eternal atonement." ("Our Relationship with the Lord," in Fireside and Devotional Speeches, 1981-82 (Provo: BYU Press, 1982), p. 97 -- this quote republished in official Lds curricula publication in 1983, 1986, Come unto Christ: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1984/1988, p. 45) * "True and saving worship is found ONLY among those who know the truth about God and the Godhead, and who undertand the true relationship men should have with each member of that Eternal Presidency." ("Our Relationship with the Lord," in Fireside and Devotional Speeches, 1981-82 (Provo: BYU Press, 1982), p. 97 -- this quote republished in official Lds curricula publication in 1983, 1986, Come unto Christ: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1984/1988, p. 45) |
"And this is life eternal, that they might know knee THE ONLY TRUE God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." (Jesus, John 17:3) [Even Lds "Doctrines & Covenants has 'stolen' a similar saying:] "This is eternal lives--to know THE ONLY wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent..." (D&C 132:24) |
Bottom line to above: Mormons might have you believe that embracing "any ole' Jesus" will do...
But you know what?
...The five quotes above -- four from an Lds "apostle" who had the temerity to write a book called "Mormon Doctrine"...
...+ a BYU prof...
...All don't agree with such an assumption...
I have read the book of Mormon.
And, no, it wasn't minus 100% of skepticism.
As if anybody should read Hitler's Mein Kampf or the Quran or the Democratic Platform with a 100% "open mind." As the old adage goes, some people's minds are so open there's a lot at risk of falling out!
From one comment I've seen given by an Lds general authority at a General Conference, Mormons somehow think that reading the Book of Mormon is itself some "trump card" as if the reading of it alone proved anything.
(The general authority was telling of a 14 yo Mormon girl who read the BoM vs. a classmate who researched the BoM -- but had not read it -- as if the evidence of what had been read and concluded was irrelevant)
...with Christ at the very center...
This is a DIFFERENT Jesus--this Book of Mormon one.
All: The Book of Mormon is online. Look up these verses below for yourself...or, you can take my word for it and read these excerpts below...and then ask yourself...Is is this the same Jesus as the One in the Bible?
Mormon version of Jesus speaking post-resurrection:
city Zarahemla: I burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof [3 Nephi 9:3; cf. 3 Nephi 8:8, 24)
city Moroni: I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned. [3 Nephi 9:4; cf. 3 Nephi 8:9]
city Moronihah: have I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof, to hide their iniquities and their abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come any more unto me against them. (3 Nephi 9:5)
city Gilgal: have I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof to be buried up in the depths of the earth; [3 Nephi 9:6]
cities Onihah, Mocum, and Jerusalem: waters have I caused to come up in the stead thereof, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come up any more unto me against them. [3 Nephi 9:7]
cities Gadiandi, Gadiomnah, Jacob, and Gimgimno: all these have I caused to be sunk, and made hills and valleys in the places thereof; and the inhabitants thereof have I buried up in the depths of the earth, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up any more unto me against them. [3 Nephi 9:8]
city Jacobugath: have I caused to be burned with fire because of their sins and their wickedness, which was above all the wickedness of the whole earth, because of their secret murders and combinations; for it was they that did destroy the peace of my people and the government of the land; therefore I did cause them to be burned, to destroy them from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up unto me any more against them. [3 Nephi 9:9]
cities Laman, Josh, Gad, Kishkumen: have I caused to be burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof, because of their wickedness in casting out the prophets, and stoning those whom I did send to declare unto them concerning their wickedness and their abominations. [3 Nephi 9:10]
In the true gospel Jesus is entombed.
In the Mormon “restored gospel", the mass of people in Moronihah is the emphasis of entombment, having been covered with an entire mountain by the Mormon jesus! (3 Nephi 8:10)
On Easter week! The other cities were all either sunk by the Mormon jesus, or horrifically burned to death, plus for added emphasis, ”many great destructions have I caused to come upon this land...” (3 Nephi 9:12)
| Q Distinguishing 'Mormon' Jesus from Jesus of Bible | Mormon 'Jesus'? | Based upon what Lds 'scripture' | Jesus of Bible? | Relevant Scriptures |
| Was Jesus quite violent at the point of His death? | YES | 3 Nephi 8:8-->3 Nephi 9:12, esp. 8:23; 9:12, Book of Mormon | NO | Jesus became sin (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 2:24) and became a curse (Gal. 3:13) on behalf of all, absorbing God's wrath on our behalf |
| Q Distinguishing 'Mormon' jesus from Jesus of Bible | Mormon 'Jesus' | Jesus of Bible |
| Was Jesus quite violent at the point of His death? | YES: Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith talked about "...a period of darkness at the death of Christ... [a] "greater period of darkness and terrible punishment came upon the people in the Western Hemisphere because of their extreme wickedness..." (Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 3, p. 45, Deseret Book Co., 1960) Biblical Jesus came to see that they would have life (John 10:10); the Book of Mormon jesus came to bring down destruction (3 Nephi 9:12) and ensure that people would "howl" in that destruction (3 Nephi 8:23); The Biblical Jesus came to ensure people would have abundant life (John 10:10); the Book of Mormon jesus came to ensure people would be in "continual...mourning" (3 Nephi 8:23); The Biblical Jesus came to be the Light of the world (John 1:9; 8:12; 9:5); the Book of Mormon jesus came to yield complete darkness for three days (3 Nephi 8:23) NOTE: Please read 3 Nephi 8:8-->3 Nephi 9:12 for entire picture of overwhelming destruction caused by the Mormon 'Jesus' | NO: The Biblical Jesus came to see that they would have life (John 10:10), to ensure people would have abundant life (John 10:10), and to be the Light of the world (John 1:9; 8:12; 9:5) |
Stu, ya gotta understand something here.
What if I announced a new church...Colofornian Community Church? And I claimed that ALL other churches in the WORLD were apostate(?)
Obviously that would constitute a "scorched earth" approach to "ecumenical" religious "relations." I would, thereby, be attempting to spiritually bury ALL other churches into one giant spiritual graveyard.
That's what Joseph Smith did. He declared them ALL AWOL! HE announced as "scripture" that the Lds church was the "only true and living church on the face of the earth." (Lds Doctrine & Covenants 1:30)
That was more than just a shot across the bow. That was open spiritual hostility to ALL Christian churches.
Now let's say that this hypothetical "church" of mine grew to 14 million around the world -- and that about 5-6 of million of them tithed to spread the above messaging into over 100 different languages.
Fact: Mormon "scriptures" bash Christians 24/7 in all kinds of languages every hour of every day.
Stu, I have the Lds Church published Topical Guide of the Bible (1979).
When you look under "Apostasy of the Early Christian Church" -- p. 13 -- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints lists 1 Nephi 13:26 of the Book of Mormon as applicable to our history: ...thou seest the formation of a great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.
So. They accuse our spiritual forefathers of being...
..."a great and abominable church"
...It's supposedly "most abominable above all other churches"
...And that we removed most of the Gospel of Jesus Christ;
...and finally, removed covenants as well.
ALL: The lesson that too many Mormons want you to know is that it's "A-OK" for these kinds of LDS accusations about Christians to be plastered around the globe by 55,000 missionaries and 24/7 Lds.org and Lds books & curricula...but, if a few FREEPERS dare to make a perceived overly negative comment about Mormons, the thin skin is bared and it's time for the Mormon toys to go home.
BTW...that same 1979 Topical Guide of the Bible published by the Mormon Church...check out p. 101 under the entry of "Devil, Church of"...When we see Book of Mormon verses listed like 1 Nephi 13:6, 32 and 14:9-10...it leaves absolutely no doubt that "true believing Mormons" -- including some FREEPERS -- deem us Christians as part of the "Church of the devil."
Sometimes the ill informed grief is difficult to stomach, yet you continue.
We know that several people on FR have been released and now know Christ because of your work.
It is for the Kingdom, we work.
Have a wonderful Christmas season with kith and kin.
BTW...that same 1979 Topical Guide of the Bible published by the Mormon Church...check out p. 101 under the entry of "Devil, Church of"...When we see Book of Mormon verses listed like 1 Nephi 13:6, 32 and 14:9-10...it leaves absolutely no doubt that "true believing Mormons" -- including some FREEPERS -- deem us Christians as part of the "Church of the devil."
Jim Robinson, 11/30/2012--this thread, post 475. "I have zero faith in Joseph Smith or his so-called Mormon religion and do not want it taught on FR as gospel."
In light of the above statement by Jim, There have been as usual, numerous posts on this thread by mormons lying about Biblical passages and Biblical characters in an attempt to claim that mormonism is equal to historical Biblical fact. They are simply lies, and I resent the continual claim of "we are Christians" when at the same time these posters are defaming true Prophets and the Apostles of the true Jesus Christ.
If there are certain forbidden sources on FR, such as Jack Chick, it seems that there should/must be attention paid to the anti-Christian defamation of the Holy Bible (which needs NO "correct translation") and defamation of early Christian leaders.
We are seeing that defenders of mormonism cannot deny factual information about the sect and are employing the tactic of lying about AND defaming Christianity.
The founding of mormonism was based on defaming Christianity. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true church (Doctrine and Covenants [D&C] 1:30); all other churches (Presbyterians, Baptists, and Methodists are specifically mentioned in Joseph Smith, History 1:9, Pearl of Great Price) are "wrong," "all their creeds were an abomination," and "those professors were all corrupt" (Joseph Smith, History 1:19). Continuing to defame Christianity shouldn't be allowed on FR.
So? Spiritual hostility is something I don’t understand or care about.
So Islam is ok? Does this misunderstanding spread across the board?
Take your analogy one further, say you claim your Church is a "Christian Church", you have the true Jesus Christ and he is really an Asparagus from the planet Krylon, and that this knowledge was covered up from the Christian faith when it went apostate very early on and the Christ they present is not the true Christian Savior and their doctrines are all incorrect.
There you have the LDS.
Be any religion you want, but be your own. Be Jewish be Buddhist or nothing, whatever, but if you steal the very Savior from another faith and twist its core doctrines into a bloody mess and then have the audacity to say the ones you stole from are wrong it is rather stupid for anyone to think there would be no response.
It is understandable you do not understand, that is evident.
Your statement that you do not care, is suspect as you spend a great deal of time on these threads.
Normally when a person doesn’t care, they just don’t care and move on to something else.
Great post
Amen to that!
Brilliant
Very well stated
True; for the BoM massively plagerizes from the KJV.
But those who will read the OTHER 'scriptures' of MORMONism will come away will a REALLY bad taste in their mouths!
MORMONism does bible like a certain fellow in Matthew 4:1-11 did!
I'm a mere wood chopper and/or water carrier compared to the men and women of faith who are carrying the main battle into the beating heart of MORMONism.
22 more days, dear. Twenty two more.
Any belief is ok...it’s the individuals that aren’t.
Any belief is ok...it’s the individuals that aren’t.
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