Posted on 08/12/2012 9:20:00 PM PDT by Phinneous
A Jewish class on why Jews do not accept Christianity. I post for Jews to self-educate and for Christians to understand the Jewish point of view--not that it matters (that they do.)
Is this a trick question?
“How is psalm 110 going to convince the Jewish people to accept that G-d went and turned into a sort of pharaoh? Pure curiosity. The conflict I see is that Jews just wont accept a this man here, he is Hashem, too scenario.”
If the scripture won’t convince them, what can?
Bookmark
Perhaps this is one reason why. From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies
On the Jews and Their Lies (German: Von den Jüden und jren Lügen; in modern spelling Von den Juden und ihren Lügen) is a 65,000-word antisemitic treatise written in 1543 by the German Reformation leader Martin Luther.
In the treatise, Luther describes Jews as a “base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth.”[1] Luther wrote that they are “full of the devil’s feces ... which they wallow in like swine,”[2] and the synagogue is an “incorrigible whore and an evil slut”.[3]
In the first ten sections of the treatise, Luther expounds, at considerable length, upon his views concerning Jews and Judaism and how these compare against Christians and Christianity. Following this exposition, Section XI of the treatise advises Christians to carry out seven remedial actions. These are
for Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight;
for houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in agricultural outbuildings;
for their religious writings to be taken away;
for rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do;
for safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews;
for usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed and “put aside for safekeeping”; and
for the Jewish population to be put to work as agricultural slave labor.[4]
20th century...and not all evangelicals today believe in Zionism. These may back Israel politically since she became a nation, but don't believe her return was prophesied in the Bible.
For most of church history, the traditional interpretation has been that the promises to Israel in the Old Testament are not fulfilled literally but spiritually.
No, what I ask is, where from psalm 110 can be inferred that a Jewish king can be like the pharaoh? That’s what’s going to be quite a stumbling block
“No, what I ask is, where from psalm 110 can be inferred that a Jewish king can be like the pharaoh? Thats whats going to be quite a stumbling block”
Well, I don’t know the ins and outs of what the Pharaoh’s claimed, but here is what the scripture claims:
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
For starters, Trinity = Chillul Hashem
Daniel wasn't a prophet... to the Jews. He was a prophet to the kings and kingdom of Babylon.
Matthew 1314 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Daniel, chapter 5
23. But have lifted up yourself against the Lord of heaven; and the utensils of his house have been brought before you, and you, and your lords, your wives, and your concubines, have drunk wine from them; and you have praised the gods of silver, and gold, of bronze, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know; and the God in whose hand your breath is, and whose are all your ways, have you not glorified:
24. Then was the part of the hand sent from him; and this writing was written:
25. And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, and PARSIN:
“20th century...and not all evangelicals today believe in Zionism. These may back Israel politically since she became a nation, but don’t believe her return was prophesied in the Bible.”
Jesus said:
Luk_21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Presumably, Jerusalem will cease to be trodden down by the gentiles “when the times of the gentiles” are fulfilled.
In many ways, though, Jerusalem is still “trodden down” insomuch that the Muzzies still control the Temple Mount and all the world meddles in their affairs as bombs still continue to go off.
“Daniel wasn’t a prophet... to the Jews. He was a prophet to the kings and kingdom of Babylon.”
Daniel’s prophecies stretched forth way beyond Babylon and concluded with the establishment of a universal Kingdom ruled directly by God. He was a Prophet to all, not just the Babylonians.
Right. Jesus isn’t a prophet. He’s God in the flesh. Fully God and fully man.
Tautology in the video is false. Premise is that a prophet can do miracles but should be rejected if the would be prophet points to other gods.
Jesus didn’t do this. The Word was with God. The Word was God. The Word was made flesh.
New Testament refers to other miracle workers who were false prophets. Judas, who subsequently betrayed Jesus, was part of His ministry and presumably performed miracles in the name of Jesus.
we know OUR scripture better than anyone else
“we know OUR scripture better than anyone else”
From my experience they tend to know it extraordinarily poorly.
My comment was a reply to a quote from the poster, who was describing the content of his class (who is and who isn’t a prophet). Jews do not consider Daniel a prophet.
According with (http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1009.htm) the name shall be “Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom”; “el-gibbor” is the part translated here as “The mighty God” and means “mighty man” or just “strong person”. Hard to sell that to Jewish autorities.
I think there are really two questions that are relevant:
1. Did the Jewish people, as a whole, of the 1st century reject Jesus as their Messiah?
2. If not, at what point did the Jews, as a whole, begin to reject Jesus as the Messiah - and, why did this happen?
Obviously, in the 1st century, there were many Jews who DID accept Jesus as their Messiah. The church in Jerusalem was several thousand strong - all Jews. And, the Christian faith spread throughout the nation of Israel.
The Sanhedrin began persecuting the early church because of the huge inroads it was making and saw the Christians as a direct threat to their power and religion. But, on average, the everyday, common Jewish person did not seem to harbor an inate sense of hostility toward Jesus being the Messiah. The Jewish church was growing by leaps and bounds. Just read the book of Acts for confirmation of this.
Of course, the Christian gospel began to spread outside of Israel, and initially, there was resistence by the Jewish Christians to go outside of the Jewish family to the “gentiles”. It was a major issue that had to be resolved by the Apostles (also see Acts).
Some theologians theorize that it was after the Roman emperor Titus’s destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD that the all out rejection of the Christian faith began. The theory is that Jesus had given warning of a coming destruction of the Temple and told His disciples that that when they saw the city of Jerusalem surrounded by the “man of destruction” they were to flee for their lives. The theory goes on to speculate that it was this “fleeing” by the early Christians when the city faced imminent destruction by their enemies that caused Jewish opinion to turn against Christianity.
Now, whether that’s true I couldn’t say for sure.
My point is that the first church was thoroughly Jewish. The Apostles were Jewish, they continued to worship in the Temple in teach in the synogogues - at least until they were forcably thrown out by the authorities. There didn’t seem to be a problem for many Jews to accept Jesus as their Messiah.
As to why Jews today reject Jesus as Messiah, I think it is partly due to the anti-Jewish persecution perpetrated on the Jews by so-called “Christian” leaders and governments throughout the past 1500 years. I think there is also this cultural/family/historical Jewish foundational rejection of Christianity that makes it very difficult for Jews to accept Jesus as Messiah - this would, in their minds, deny their heritage and people.
The Apostle Paul lamented and struggled with the question as to why it appeared that his people, as a whole, were not all turning to Jesus. Even though there were many who did accept Him, Paul still saw that most Jews, though maybe not completely out and out hostile to Christianity, were not accepting Him as their Messiah on a complete national scale.
He looked for the day when the Jews would be “grafted” back into the “vine”. He obviously thought that that would happen one day.
The Evangelical Christian support for Israel goes back to at least the 1950’s after Israel’s re-emergence as a nation in 1947. This is because many Christians saw this as a fullfillment of prophecy that God would one day restore Israel and bring His people back to their land. God still has plans for His people and the promises He made to Abraham still hold true. Yes, the Christian church is the “new Israel” (as Paul mentions in one of his letters), but God is not done with the Jewish people either and has promised to restore them not only nationally and politically, but also ultimately restored with salvation through their true Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth.
How God will do this, I don’t know, but hey, He’s God and trust that what He says, He will do.
The Scripture reveals your question:
Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
In addition today- Many Jews do believe Jesus Christ to be the Messiah of Israel...
Most of what is written in the Gospels about the Last Days the end of the Age has now come to fruition..
Even the Famous Rabbi Kaduri revealed the name of Jesus as Messiah.
Rabbi Kaduri reveals name of Moshiach before death..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xCUnDuycPQ
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