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Posted on 07/03/2012 9:31:36 AM PDT by Teófilo
Another nail in the coffin of the foundational Protestant dogma
Sola scriptura is dead, or at least is undead, a zombie still stalking the darkened hallways of Protestantism. Many well-meaning Protestant Christians don’t see the zombie-dogma for what it is; instead, they choose to see it as a being of light. My friend Dave Armstrong has returned to blow the old decrepit sola scriptura monsters one at a time in his latest work, 100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura.
Let’s recall the definition of the sola scriptura dogma – yes, it is a dogma – as understood by Norman Geisler, a recognized Protestant authority Dave quotes in his work:
By sola scriptura orthodox Protestants mean that Scripture alone is the primary and absolute source of authority, the final court of appeal, for all doctrine and practice (faith and morals)… (p.16)Geisler, and other authorities Dave quotes, further explain that other authorities exist, but that these are of secondary importance. Geisler also defends what he calls the perspicuity of Holy Writ, which means that anyone can understand the basic truths of Scripture: the plain things are the main things and the main things are the plain things, Geisler states. (p.17). As a true analyst, Dave separated the sola scriptura dogma into its constituents claims, found out its contents, examined its individual parts, and studied the structure of sola scriptura as whole. He found them defective and insufficient to expound and explain the full spectrum of Christian claims.
Dave kills the sola scriptura zombie by selecting 100 verses from Scripture contradicting this central Protestant claim. I guess he selected 100 verses because the number “100” gives the reader a sense of exhaustive answer and completion, not because there are only 100 verses that should make all sincere Protestant Christian at least uncomfortable with the teaching. In fact, Dave is the author of another related work, 501 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura: Is the Bible the Only Infallible Authority?, which is useful if you need another 401 arguments to kill the sola scriptura zombie dead.
100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura. is a distillation of the 501 Biblical Arguments… in a more manageable, less overwhelming fashion for the beginning reader. It’s 133 pages in length and divided into two parts. In Part 1 Dave discusses the binding authority of Tradition, as substantiated in Scripture, and in Part 2 he discusses the binding authority of the Church, again from Scripture. The result must be uncontestable to the sincere Protestant Christian as well as eye opening to the full range of deeds and wonders the Incarnation of the Word of God brought to history.Will the sola scriptura zombie really die after Dave’s work? This is a senseless question because the zombie is already dead. It’s kept ambulating by strings pulled from the most diehard of its followers. Those strings must be cut by the individual, sincere Protestant Christian himself. Dave Armstrong’s work, 100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura. not only blows the zombie of sola scriptura away, he also provides the truth-searcher with the scissors to cut off the strings.
No, they were condemned for devotion to tradition over scripture.
For the record it was Luther that wanted to remove the book of Revelation not The RCC, Wehave all the books, including the seven you guys took out.
We know that your popes set the example bowing to and praying to statues of Mary...
Earlier in the thread you said that these statures are Catholic art...So we know that your popes pray to what you say is Catholic art...
Why twist it??? Are you guys not use to people questioning what you say???
Why do you pray to printed words in a book
I don't ever recollect seeing a 'bible believer' proning himself and praying to a bible...So if you ever find evidence of something like that such as a picture, go ahead and post it...
and why are you so angry?
Angry??? Shirley you jest...
I am happy to suffer his abuse and turn the other cheek in His name.
You are too kind...LOL...
Now in contrast you will quote Col 2:8 according to the tradition of men -- or Mary 7:8 --> Jesus sometimes condemned customs or disciplines, but only if they were contrary to God’s commands, He didn't condemn sacred tradition nor even all human tradition
Sacred Tradition is the interpretation of Scripture as taught by Jesus Christ and handed down through the Apostles. That is why the earliest Christian texts like the Didache show the Mass celebrated in 70 AD in the same way we do now
I can’t speak for the other guy, but all of that is within scripture.(other than possibly your trinitarian view. I read and believe God is One, not three distinct individuals.)
But I also believe anything called the word of God must agree with scripture. If a man says, “God told me to divorce my wife and marry this 18yo hotty,”(people have done this) well, what does His Word say about that?
Scripture after scripture talks about...scripture. Someone listed several of them earlier.
Unless, of course, you take the New Testament writings to be just that. The NT is the handed-down tradition/views of the Apostles.
Ping for later ...
“our brothers and sisters regardless of what they think of us. Well, Levinfan, I am surprised by this, because on this forum I’ve mostly seen various non-catholics saying we Catholics are not Christian, or saying we are demonic led etc. etc. One or two are even coolly speaking on this thread.”
I come from a charismatic background that still believes in the Gifts, so I understand how you feel about all that. We’re called holy-rollers and snake handlers. So I’m cautious about attacking any church. look at some of the attacks to me regarding my reliance on the bible. Try speaking in tongues in a Lutheran or Baptist church and see what happens. I understand even some Catholics now believe in the Gifts of the Spirit.
Catholics are also very good at attacking non-Catholics. Catholics tend to be big believers in the all powerful authority of the Catholics church. people find that offensive. You should read some of the attacks against us who won’t follow the Pope or Catholicism. We’re often told non-Catholics are going to Hell.
The pope is not the anti-Christ. My background and reading suggest that will be a Jew.(no, I’m not anti-jew) As for the great whore, I expect that to be a fly by night mega-church.
I have my own issues with Catholics traditions, like baby baptisms and how close many come to idol worship and multi-theism, regardless of how they dress it up.
Nothing saves but faith and relationship with Jesus. Not a million hail marys, or the Sinners Prayer. Many Protestants tell people “repeat this prayer and you are saved.” What is that, but a formula? The same thing they accused Catholics of. People just repeat a chant they don’t understand, then leave thinking that is all there is to salvation. The prayer isn’t wrong, but it is incomplete without understanding.
The church struggles with the world, not because we aren’t united behind on church, but because we war with each other. The early church had great division on many points of doctrine, like cercumcision. But they didn’t feed on each other like sharks..
I say teach as we each understand, and let the student decided. His salvation is in his hands only. None will be able to point to his teacher, “but he said thus.”
How do you deal witht he fact that one out of twelve of Jesus diciples was the one that betrayed him? How do you deaql with the fact that Jimmy Swagget cheated on his wife, Jim Bakker stole thoundsna of dollars and cheated on his wife? How about Peter Popoff(spell?) pretends to be a healer? The lsit goes on and on.
The one undeniable fact is that as bad as some of these Popes might have been in their personal life, not one, not a single one ever taught heresy.
So where did the Bible come from? Who decided that Matthew was in and the Gosple of Peter was out? Who decided that Philemon was in and the Didache was out?
Hint Councils of Hippo and Carthage 393 and 397 respectively.
The scripture says that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not scripture. 1 Tim 3:15. Do you fol;ks still have that verse in your Bible?
The scripture says that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not scripture. 1 Tim 3:15. Do you folks still have that verse in your Bible?
You want to point to where I ever denied the Trinity??? I see you have fallen in line with your team of 'false accusers'...Integrity isn't too high on you guy's list, eh???
“How do you deal witht he fact that one out of twelve of Jesus diciples was the one that betrayed him?”
By recognizing that all men are fallible, but that His word is infallible.
You're really reachin' for that one...Within the context, the 'you' was plural...Nothing at all personal...
A little bit of bible will clear up your Catholic education...
I am a triad...A trinity...I have a body, a soul and a spirit...
I was created in God's image...
And that's the closest you, I or anyone else is going to get to understanding the Trinity...
I am three, but I am one, for now...
Now if you and your religion has something to add, or something better, that isn't based on man's unGodly wisdom (philosophy), let's hear it...Put your argument up there, if you can...Otherwise, why waste all the bandwidth???
the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. The Trinitarian view is quite extensive in scripture as I indicated, Matt 3:16-17: And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him. [17] And behold a voice from heaven, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
This clearly indicates distinct yet of the same identical essence or nature perfectly united in purpose and will.
God is one, yet these are not modes -- as then the baptism scene would negate the divinity of two
in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth of all that is seen and unseen?
in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father?
that through Jesus Christ all things were made?
that for us men and for our salvation He came down from heaven; by the power of the Holy Spirit He was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered died, and was buried. On the third day He rose in fulfillment of the Scriptures; He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father?
that He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end?
in the Holy Spirit, One God, with the Father and the Son?
Hey, is that another no so veiled reference to me???
The answer is simple...What does your religion teach you guys that you need to count on to get you to heaven???
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