Posted on 07/01/2012 1:18:00 AM PDT by stpio
R. Albert Mohler, Jr., President of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary isn't sure if Birth Control is a sin.
Watch this Vortex. The problem with Protestantism, you get to decide.
“Because there was a big, empty earth to fill?”
Second question - when did God command you to stop?
“Has Romney publicly supported killing aborted babies that have survived the abortion?”
Obama has. And he will probably receive a majority of the Catholic vote in 2012, as he did in 2008.
“Well, I’m sorry, Arizona is not Texas and never will be. Arizona elected John McCain.”
No, Arizona is not Texas. We have more conservative gun laws and have taken steps to try to limit illegal immigration.
But Catholics usually vote democrat - and that means pro-abortion liberals. It doesn’t give Catholics a lot of room to complain that Southern Baptists are evil for using condoms...
These were numbers a few months after Obama took office.
Let's pray that we can look to the future.
When in doubt, go American, real American, old Fashioned American.
“Obama has.”
So you are saying that we should draw a distinction between killing unborn and born children?
“No, Arizona is not Texas. We have more conservative gun laws and have taken steps to try to limit illegal immigration.”
Texas hasn’t ceded a quarter of it’s state to Mexico. I’m sure some Arizona folks are wonderful people, but as a whole, you’re doing a terrible job. Texas fought Mexico - on it’s own and won.
Arizona? Never did. Am I supposed to be impressed that you don’t even consider anything south of I-10 to be part of Arizona anymore?
“It doesn’t give Catholics a lot of room to complain that Southern Baptists are evil for using condoms.”
So what you’re saying is that because others sin that means you can sin with impunity? That’s not exactly Christian principles.
OK.....
Whatever you think must be real....
What about the much higher majority vote of others who make up more of the population?
I realize these are old numbers, but I disagree with you. After Obama has attacked the Catholic Church during the last year so voiciferously, I doubt that Catholics will vote for him. CINOs manybe.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2901533/posts?page=83#83
Uhhhh.
What is it about Catholics that you want to cover up?
Mr Rogers, +1 Well said.
I find it laughable that as an upper-midwest Lutheran it would be a sin to use a condom, or get a vasectomy after my wife and I choose not to have any more children.
As to the point of “God never told us to stop filling the earth”- God gave us a brain with the hope we’d use it.
Threads like these are serious business on FR ;-)
Just as one Catholic voting democrat doesn’t make all Catholics communists.
The poster you made your comment to never said anything about Catholics being communists. YOU chose to read into what you wanted.
The first comment that the poster made was "Christians can use birth control, just as we can use soap to avoid the natural growth of bacteria on our bodies."
Nothing said about Catholics or communists.
And I haven't said anything about Catholics being communists.
So whats your point. .
If 40% of Catholics vote prolife and there are 50 million Catholic citizens over 18 and half of them vote, then we have 10 million Catholic pro-life voters.
If 80% of southern baptists vote prolife and ther are 12 million southern baptist citizens over 18 and half of them vote, then we have about 5 million southern baptist pro-life voters.
So, there are roughly twice as many pro-life Catholic voters (compared to southern baptists).
Think of how many more millions of southern baptist voters there would be today if southern baptists didn’t treat pregnancy as something to be avoided.
I want more southern baptist voters - you don’t. Who knew!?!
Catholic doctrine is that we want southern baptists to have a lot of children.
Southern baptist doctrine is that southern baptist couples can use birth control to avoid having even one child.
No wonder your numbers are declining.
Let me add one extra point that all need to consider, Are they in communion with the Church if the are doing things directly against the faith? Thus they are not truly Catholic but CINO.
Now here is where the Church has failed in the past many years by not holding people like these to account. Thusly why it is fair to as why has the Church failed to do so. Oh yea its time to Start. To lie and bear false witness is a sin but to call attention to lies is not. Those listed below lie in that they ware their faith only when it serves them and do contrary to the teaching while confusing others about the facts. Pray that they will see the error of their was and the souls they have darken by their actions as supposed leaders.
Nancy Pelosi
Ted Kennedy
John Kerry
Joe Biden
Tom Daschle
If all Americans, including Baptists, other Protestants, and Catholics who defy Church teaching, would just read the label, the Pill would simply go away.
Read. The. Label.
It says the Pill is an abortifacient. It is indisputable. Drug manufacturers print it right there on the packaging — if conception occurs, the secondary line of defense starves the embryo to death.
And that is an abortion.
But people don’t read the labels, because they don’t want to know. People who flunked high school biology just scream, “The Pill prevents pregnancy!”
They also don’t want to know the cancer and stroke statistics, among other health calamities, visited on women with a history on the Pill. “It’s perfectly safe!” Really? Please cite the studies that support any claim of safety. You can’t, because they’ve all been debunked.
When it comes to scientific fact and the Pill, Protestants and lots of Catholics and Jews and atheists and whatever else you got reason as if they were the children they want to prevent. Fingers in ears. “La la la la! I’m not listening to yooooou!”
“So you are saying that we should draw a distinction between killing unborn and born children?”
Which is the lesser of two evils: someone who allows first trimester abortions, or someone who allows 4TH trimester abortions?
“Texas fought Mexico - on it’s own and won.
Arizona? Never did. Am I supposed to be impressed that you don’t even consider anything south of I-10 to be part of Arizona anymore?”
Texas as an independent nation fought Mexico. You currently are much laxer on border enforcement than Arizona is trying to be - although it looks like we would need to become an independent nation to secure our borders now.
And I live south of I-10, and I live in Arizona. The problem here is primarily drug runners, and we aren’t allowed to do much about that, either.
“So what you’re saying is that because others sin that means you can sin with impunity? That’s not exactly Christian principles.”
First, I reject the idea that using a condom is a sin. You can call it that if you wish, but God has not.
Second, I rate abortion a graver sin than using a condom (which I don’t consider a sin at all, but if it was one, it would rate somewhere lower in gravity as a crime than aborting a baby).
How many Catholic politicians calling for government paid abortions have been punished by the Catholic Church? Any? Ever? Who has been excommunicated for it?
Each Baptist congregation is responsible for discipline. I can promise you a Baptist politician in my congregation who wanted government provided abortions thru the 4th trimester would be thrown out. So would those calling for homosexual marriage.
Catholics who point to pride that they oppose condoms might want to consider how many Catholics openly support abortion, including partial birth abortion, and how many Catholics voted for a man who believes in killing kids after a botched abortion. Or how many prominent Catholic politicians support homosexuality...or even how many Catholic priests do!
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Stats on sexual morality
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You and Mohler, who proudly claims to be a protestant, should sit down and get your stories straight. (A. A. Cunningham)
Apparently, you did not read my disclaimer. I have my story straight, and explained it clearly.
If Mohler claims to be a Protestant, he is in agreement with Kenneth Scott Latourette (see KSL's "A History of Christianity"). But they are at odds with other Baptists who are not going under the color of Protestantism. History teaches otherwise, and your post goes not prove itself. It falls on the Baptist features that distictly places them apart from protest-ants.
Baptists are not an outgrowth of Romanism, because they were never in it. Individuals might have been out of Roman culture, in which The Church parcels out grace; but the Baptist theology was not (see KSL pp. 351, 779). And Romanists and their illegitimate daughters, the protesting reformer denominations, never came out of the Baptist ranks.
I have already observed that we are not going to agree on this.
You can let it go or keep on, but I won't wrangle with you any further on this.
“When it comes to scientific fact and the Pill, Protestants and lots of Catholics and Jews and atheists and whatever else you got reason as if they were the children they want to prevent. Fingers in ears. “La la la la! I’m not listening to yooooou!”
~ ~ ~
True, Birth Control has made sex about self gratification. Sex is for marriage and for life, you can’t separate the two. Imagine, ministers wondering if Birth Control is against God. Come to the faith, no, it’s easier to reject the faith.
The Bible does not prohibit birth control by the name “birth control”, but it does indeed prohibit it by action. In Genesis 38:9 we read that Onan “spilled his seed upon the ground”, and in Genesis 38:10 God slew him “because he did a detestable thing”.
St. Augustine (4th century) rightly summed up the Apostolic tradition on the subject of birth control in his treatise on the sin of adultery when he wrote: “Marital relations even with a lawful wife, are unlawful and degrading when the conception of a child is deliberately frustrated. This was the sin of Onan, and God struck him dead because of it.”
Your list of anti-Catholic statistics, no one notices.
I didn’t realize only Catholics are sinners, *teasing you*.
Yes or no, please answer the question. Do you believe Birth Control (Contraception) is a grave sin, an intrinsic evil as the faith teaches and has for 2000 years?
Actually, here is what Gen 38 says:
“8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.” 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his. So whenever he went in to his brother’s wife he would waste the semen on the ground, so as not to give offspring to his brother. 10 And what he did was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death also.”
Tell me...do Catholics teach that if your brother dies childless, you should have sex with his widow to raise up children?
It made sense at that time for a tribe. It is not current morality teaching by either Catholic or Baptist that I know of...but if it was the right thing to do, then certainly having sex with your brother’s widow but avoiding conception would be a sin.
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