|
Infallibility
|
Posted on 05/16/2012 11:39:02 AM PDT by Salvation
Infallibility
Christ gave to Simon Peter and his successors, the Keys to the Kingdom and the power of binding and loosing. To the Popes was given the authority to teach. To them, in this regard, was given the charism of infallibility. "Infallibility" is not "impeccability" -- the inability to sin. Catholics do not believe that Popes are sinless and never err. Infallibility is simply a gift that is expressed in very specific ways, limited by Sacred Deposit of Faith -- Tradition, Scripture, and the unanimous writings of the early Fathers. As put by Vatican I:
For the Holy Spirit was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by His revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by His assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or Deposit of Faith transmitted by the Apostles.
Or, as put even more bluntly by Pope Pius XII in Mystici Coporis Christi:
[Nor] may anyone argue that the primacy of jurisdiction established in the Church gives such a Mystical Body two heads. For Peter in virtue of his Primacy is only Christ's Vicar; so that there is only one chief Head of this Body, namely Christ, who never ceases Himself to guide the Church invisible, though at the same time He rules it visibly, through Church rested not on Him alone, but on Peter too, its visible foundation stone.
The Pope may explain doctrines more fully, he may go more deeply into them, he can extrapolate from moral principles to shed light on new situations that arise, but he cannot contradict what has been handed down by Christ and the Apostles and still claim infallibility for that teaching.
Protestants believe the first Pope possessed the charism of infallibility.
Now, they might not believe that Peter was the first Pope (which he was), but they believe that his Epistles are infallible. They also believe that Luke, Matthew, Mark, Paul, Jude and John wrote infallibly. They believe that Moses "was infallible," too. And Hosea, Micah, Nehemiah, Isaiah, David, Solomon, Zechariah -- any Patriarch, Prophet, Apostle, or Evangelist who wrote a Bibilical Book is deemed by Protestants to be infallible.
But somehow they see things as having changed, and the idea of the gift of infallibility being given to man is laughed off as "Popish superstition" at best, and as "Romish sacrilege" at worst.
Why they believe this, when since Israel's origins God has always provided authoritative leaders, I don't know. From Abraham to Jacob to Moses to David to Solomon, et. al., throughout the thousands and thousands of years of Israel's existence, God gave Israel earthly authority. But Protestants see this authority as having abruptly ended when the Old Testament Covenant was fulfilled and Israel's King of Kings took on flesh.
Malachi 2-7
For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.
Matthew 23:2-3
The scribes and Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice.
Did that earthly authorty pass away? If not, where did that authority pass on to?
Isaiah 22:21-23
And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house.
Matthew 16:18-19
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
The authority passed to Peter and to the priests of the New Covenant.
"But we don't believe that Moses and Jacob and David were perfect! Look at David -- he committed adultery! Just because they wrote infallible books doesn't mean they were perfect!"
Precisely. And Catholics don't believe that Popes are perfect and can't sin or that every word a Pope mutters is infallible. When David whored around, he sinned. When Solomon prayed to pagan gods, he sinned. When Peter denied Christ three times, he sinned. When Pope John Paul II kissed the Koran or failed to deal with heretic, Modernist Bishops and homosexualist priests, he sinned. Impeccability is not a part of the deal -- but all of these sinners had/have the charism of infallibility.
The Authentic (i.e. "authoritative") Magisterium of the Church -- i.e., the teaching office of the Church exercised by proper authority -- has different levels of infallibility:
Extraordinary Infallible Magisterium ("Solemn Magisterium"): this is exercised when the Pope, as supreme pastor of the entire Church, speaks ex cathedra (from the Chair of Peter) and solemnly defines a dogma concerning faith and morals to be held by the entire Church, or when a Dogmatic Council convened and endorsed by a Pope formally defines a matter of faith and morals to be held by the entire Church. This is a very rarely excercised assertion of authority (only a few times in the past few hundred years). When the Pope teaches using his extraordinary infallible Magisterium, or when a Council dogmatically defines something and the Pope endorses that defintion, Catholics must believe what is taught de fide, as an article of faith.
Ordinary Infallible Magisterium ("Constant Magisterium" or "Universal Magisterium"): this is exercised when the Pope, Council, Bishop, priest or any authorized teacher teaches in accordance with Tradition, the Sacred Deposit of Faith, and what has been always accepted and taught by the Church in the past
Merely Authentic Ordinary Magisterium: any teaching by Pope, Bishop, priest, or any authorized teacher, that does not fall into the above two levels of infallibility is, quite simply, fallible, even though it may be part of the Authentic Magisterium (that is, it is "authorized" teaching). Teaching at this level is owed obedience -- as long as obeying does not harm the Faith, lead to sin or the loss of souls, does not contradict the Faith, etc. If what is being taught contradicts the Faith, it not only can be resisted, it must be resisted.
In addition to Magisterium, the Pope can, of course, simply act as a private person and offer his personal opinions on anything from current events to sports to food to movies. These may be of interest to us Catholics, who tend to sensibly love -- or at least respect the office of -- the Holy Father, but they are not "Church teaching" in any way. In the same way, a Council may be called that is pastoral and not dogmatic in nature (such as Vatican II).
Now, some Catholics forget the second level of the Magisterium, the "Ordinary Infallible Magisterium." They forget the Sacred Deposit of Faith, the unanimous agreement of the early Christian Fathers, and Sacred Tradition. These "Catholics" are the "liberal Catholics" or "modernist Catholics" you hear so much from in the media. They are the ones who root for the ordination of women, the eradication of the Christian view of homosexuality, etc. These are the well-organized, well-funded loudmouth "Catholics" who eat away at the Church's teachings and have become well-entrenched in various dioceses.
Another type of Catholic forgets about that third level of teaching that is not infallible at all. Any time the Pope teaches, he must be heard, his authority given respect, and the teaching given the benefit of the doubt because it comes from the Vicar of Christ. But if it contradicts prior infallible Magisterium, it is not infallible -- and it must not be obeyed if it proves harmful to the faith. Catholics who forget this level of Magisterium try very hard to be "orthodox" by being obedient, but they often have a false sense of obedience -- an obedience that sometimes borders on a pre-conscious papolatry ("pope worship"), though, of course, they know better and know that "worshipping the Pope" would be a terrible sin. They usually have a very healthy sensus catholicus, a desire for traditional Catholicism, and a virtuous patience, but they simply attribute to the Pope authority he does not have and they truly need to come to a better understanding of what the Magisterium is. These Catholics are often called "neo-conservatives," "conservatives," or "neo-Catholics" (they often think of and refer to themselves as "traditional Catholics" though they are not). You will see these otherwise wonderful Catholics tying themselves into knots trying to defend some of the novelties that followed Vatican II, or sweating bullets making excuses for some of the Holy Father's more scandalous actions (e.g., "ecumenical" services that include praying with Animists, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Protestants; allowing altar girls and "Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers", etc.), failures to act (e.g., lack of discipline given to Bishops), and opinions (e.g., support for the anti-subsidiarity, anti-life, anti-Christ United Nations).
Their desire to protect the Holy Father is understandable -- and laudable! -- especially since the papacy has been attacked so unfairly since the Protestant Rebellion and the ensuing secular revolution, most often with outrageous lies. But these Catholics have to wake up, study a bit, and defend true Catholic teaching as it has been known for 2,000 years.
If it has always been taught by the Church as a matter of faith or morals, it is infallible. If it is a solemn definition, it is infallible.
Ex., you are reading two Encyclicals. The first Encyclical reads:
Venerable Brethren, the red dogs runs at night. The cow jumped over the Moon. Jesus Christ is God. Little Jack Horner sat in a corner. Women may not be ordained to the priesthood.
In this document, the only parts which would be infallible would be the lines "Jesus Christ is God" and "women may not be ordained to the priesthood" because these have always been taught. This is teaching at the level of the Universal Magisterium, which is infallible.
The second Encyclical reads:
By the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own authority, we pronounce, declare, and define it to be a divinely revealed dogma: that X, Y, Z. Hence if anyone, which God forbid, should dare willfully to deny or to call into doubt that which we have defined, let him know that he has fallen away completely from the divine and Catholic Faith. And, by the way, the red dog runs at night.
Notice the explicit "we define" here? Notice that it is addressed to "anyone," not just to members of the Latin Church or of the Eastern Churches, etc.? Notice the penalty in place for non-acceptance of what is being said (if you don't believe this, you have fallen away from the Catholic Faith)? By these marks, you can know that infallible teaching is being expressed.
In this document, X, Y, and Z are infallible, but not "the red dog runs at night." This is teaching at the level of the Extraordinary (or Solemn) Magisterium, which is also infallible and is to be accepted "de fide." (Note: Protestants and uneducated Catholics who ask blankly, "Is Enclyclical X infallible?" need to recognize that a 100-page Encyclical may be written that is not infallible in any way, or has 10 paragraphs that are infallible, or 1 sentence that is infallible, etc.). This sort of exercise of the Solemn Magisterium is very rare, but very necessary when clarity is needed over a teaching that has always been taught, but whose details haven't been strictly defined.
All other teachings are owed obedience as long as they do not lead to a loss of Faith, harm the Church, impede the salvation of souls, lead to an evil, etc.
Summary:
Always been taught and believed: infallible
Solemnly defined by Pope or Council: infallible
Other teachings: fallible, but owed religious assent unless they prove harmful, lead to sin, etc.
In addition to the above authoritative excercises of the Magisterium is "ecclesiastical tradition." Ecclesiastical tradition is the body of disciplines and practices which Christ's Church has ordained to be the manner in which our Faith is lived out and expressed. To quote Brother Alexis Bugnolo, writing in Seattle Catholic:
Ecclesiastical Tradition is the term used by the Second Ecumenical Council of Nicaea, in 787 A.D., to speak of those pious customs of the Churches founded by the Apostles, which in some manner correctly apply the Catholic Religion to concrete practice over many generations. It does this most importantly in its 4th Anathema:
"If anyone despises or rejects any written or unwritten ecclesiastical tradition, anathema sit."Some examples cited by this council of ecclesiastical tradition are the veneration of the symbol of the Cross, icons, and statues. As an unwritten practice, kneeling for Communion is an ecclesiastical tradition.
The details of ecclesiastical tradition (small "T") are not a matter of dogma per se, but they are the inerrant manner in which dogma and doctrine are taught, learned, expressed, and lived. The details of ecclesiastical tradition may develop; they are not written in stone. But they may develop only slowly, "organically," in terms of quantity or quality (not substance), and in such a manner that is consistent with Natural Law and which better expresses the Faith (or at least doesn't harm the Faith, such as the novel practices since Vatican II do). Many of the problems in the Church since the Second Vatican Council stem from the almost complete eradication or revolutionizing of ecclesiastical tradition, in spite of the Second Council of Nicaea's anathema against such things and in spite of the fact that they have proven dangerous to the Faith.
The article includes references to Protestantism and therefore would not have qualified for a “Catholic Caucus” on the Religion Forum.
It may be about Catholicism, but it is neither a Catholic thread nor a Catholic CAUCUS thread. If it were a Caucus thread, then there would be no expectation of contrary comments. It could not BE a caucus thread anyway because of the inclusion of comments about "Protestants" which opens it up to opposing viewpoints from Protestants. It is an OPEN Religion Forum thread which means adversarial comments should be expected. No hijacking necessary. Per the Moderator, those with thin skin should avoid open religion forum threadss.
“As I understand your answer: You are now admitting >you are >not infallible. That means you >can be >wrong.”
I have said from the very beginning that I am a sinner, I never once claimed otherwise. I’m fallible but God’s word is truth(infallible).(Jn. 17:17) Your trouble is not with me but God’s word. You put the pope, the cathoic church and it’s teachings above God’s word. (Mark 8:38 “For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels”)
“Swampfox101, you have cited a number of passages from the Bible based on >your >fallible interpretation.”
Simple yes or no question to you? Is God’s word, the Bible, infallible? You seem to really struggle with the answer to this question.
“God walked Holy Lands building a Church. God promised that the gates of hell would never prevail against His Church.”
Jesus walked the Holy Land preaching and teaching forgivness and salvation and establishing His Holy, Spiritual Kingdom. His kingdom, His Church was not of this world, it was Holy and Spiritual. Something that neither the Jews nor the Romans understood. Sadly many people today don’t understand it either. (John 18:36 “Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”)
Matt 4:16-18(The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light,
And upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death
Light has dawned.”[a]
17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
“The Bible & history actually proves that the Roman Catholic Church is the True Church set up by Jesus Christ.”
The “ONE TRUE CHURCH” is the one established on the Day of Pentecost by Christ himself. It is His Church, the Lord’s Chruch. As for history of the Church, you don’t wanna go three because the history of the Catholic Church isn’t too stellar.
“You quote the Bible quite a bit & because you say it, you announce to all of us >your interpretation must be true.”
I quote the Bible because they are the words of God and His Son. Yes I quote them as truth because they are “TRUTH”. You never quote Bible, Do you believe it, the Bible, to be God’s word and infallible or not? I believe I have asked you this queston several times. Do you believe the Catholic Church and what it teaches is infallible? Do you believe the teachings of the Catholic are superior to the teachings of God’s word ?
“Thank you for admitting that >your interpretation may be wrong & that you are fallible.”
I’ve never said otherwise. But God’s word is always infallible and truthful, that’s why I quote it and not my onw words. How bout you who do u quote? The pope? The Catholic Churhc? Are they fallible or infallible? Just curius...! What is “TRUTH” to you? If God’s word is not TRUTH, what is?
“Swampfox101, your interpretation is only correct when it is completely compatible with the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.”
NO, my interpretations is correct when it comports with scripture or God’s word. God’s word is TRUTH not the fallible pope or the fallible Catholic Church. (Mark 13:30&31 “ Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.”)
“http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2813123/posts.
Here is a start about the Roman Catholic Church being the one true Church. The person posting as ‘salvation’ can provide all the links you need to start learning about the Catholic Church.”
I know a better place to go and find God’s ONE TRUE CHURCH it called the Bible. God’s Word. Truth. Sorry you just can’t top that with any website. Try bible.com. You’ll be much happier there once you free yourself from the teaching of man.
“Please go to the Vatican website & look up the information contained in this post:”
I have NO NEED to go to the vbaticans’s website. Why would I want to do that when I have God’s word at the tip of my fingers? I don’t need indoctrination from the Catholic Church, I have TRUTH in the scriptrues.
“http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2875690/posts.
God gives >everyone the opportunity & the sufficient grace to get into Heaven. It’s a teaching of the Catholic Church.”
God wishes that none perish.(JN. 3:16) That why he gave us His Word, the Bible it is to lead us to obedience of our faith. (Rom. 1:5 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name,”)
“You will notice that ‘boatbums’ name appears in the last ‘thread.’”
Some folks want to just argue & not try to understand a Church that has been here on Earth for >two thousands years”.
I will not argue that point with you but I will not agree that the teaching of the Catholic Church are all biblical because clearly some of them aren’t.
“The person posting this thread has >numerous teachings about the Catholic Church & the Doctrines of the Church. Anyone that is >truly interested in the Catholic Church can ask for her to post a link to information.”
The TRUE DOCTRINES of the TRUE CHURCH can only be found in God’s word.
“Also, That’s a good Moniker. All I know about the Swampfox is from the Walt Disney movies. I’ve never seen the Mel Gibson movie. However, Mel Gibson’s movie about ‘The Passion of The Christ’ has an extraordinary portrayal of the Stations of the Cross.”
Does it really matter?
Thank you for your reply.
All comments have proven that a very large number of people think they are really an ‘infallible pope’ of the scriptures.
There are literally thousands of different churches claiming God’s word is true. Each with a different interpretation of God’s true word.
Within those thousands of different churches literally >millions of people >argue about the true meaning of scripture.
The point of my question (are you infallible?) is to have you understand that you seem to be claiming to be ‘pope of the scriptures.’
To cite a passage in the Bible such as: “Jesus is Lord” is an actual Truth. However, to carry it further and claim that Jesus did not establish a Church with authority here on earth is to use a truth to create a falsehood.
Did God a build a Church on earth for people? Did God place people in charge of His Church? Did God put one person in charge of the Church to speak with infallible authority?
I say: Yes! & that person is the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church.
One, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic Church.
Jesus Christ did not walk the earth to sow confusion. Jesus Christ build one authentic Church & the Church would have a singular voice through both time & geography.
You quote numerous Biblical verses: But at the end, everything you say can be summed-up by saying, ‘you seem to think you’re pope-of-the-scriptures.’
I believe that the true understanding of the scriptures is conveyed by the Roman Catholic Church.
You say you be a Bible-based Christian. = Please read once again the events about Noah’s ark. You may notice that there was only one ark. There were not numerous little boats bobbing about in different directions.
Remember: It’s One, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic Church.
The FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH is important to ALL Christians.
+ I recommend you go to the Vatican website and read The Catholic Catechism paragraph 766,
“The Church is born primarily of Christ’s total self-giving for our salvation, anticipated in the institution of the Eucharist and fulfilled on the Cross.
“The origin and growth of the Church are symbolized by the blood and water which flowed from the open side of the crucified Jesus” “For it was from the side of Christ as he slept the sleep of death upon the Cross that there came forth the ‘wondrous sacrament of the whole Church.’”
As Eve was formed from the sleeping Adam’s side, so the Church was >born from the pierced heart of Christ hanging dead on the Cross.
Beautiful, absolutely.
Numerous Christians both Catholics & Protestants think the Church was ‘created’ on Pentecost Sunday. When actually, The Church was born from the Heart of Jesus Christ on the Cross.
“Did God a build a Church on earth for people? Did God place people in charge of His Church? Did God put one person in charge of the Church to speak with infallible authority?
I say: Yes! & that person is the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church.
One, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic Church.”
Finally you speak the truth, you think the pope and his word in infallible but you REFUSE to accept the word of God as being infallible. You put your faith in a mere man, a sinner. I put my faith in God, His word, and His Son all perfectly righteous and sinless.
John 12:47-49
And if anyone hears My words and does not believe,[a] I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
Peace and keep studying.
In Christianity = it’s a sin to tell a lie. + Sin may send you to Hell for ALL eternity.
The Catholic Catechism paragraph 107, ‘The inspired books teach the truth. “Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.”
The conclusion that only can be reached by your comments is: You think you are the ‘pope of scripture.’
Do you have a >real church you attend or are you the ‘pope of your own armchair church?’
Please the study Bible you seem to quote inappropriately. The Bible teaches liars can end up in Hell for ALL eternity.
In Christianity = it’s a sin to tell a lie. + Sin may send you to Hell for ALL eternity.
Tell that to the pope and the catholic church. It is they that change and pervert God’s word, not me.
The Catholic Catechism paragraph 107, ‘The inspired books teach the truth. “Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit,
The Holy Spirit inspired men and they wrote as the Spirit directed. John 14:16, John 16:13.
we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.”
Your’re preaching to the choir.
The conclusion that only can be reached by your comments is: You think you are the ‘pope of scripture.’
NO. You just don’t think God word is infallible. You put your trust in man. You put your faith and ur trust in the pope, a sinner. You consider him infallible. I put my faith and my trust in Jesus Christ and His word. They are infallible. You quote ur pope and the catholic church. I quote Jesus Christ and His word.
Do you have a >real church you attend or are you the ‘pope of your own armchair church?’
I am a memeber of the one and only Lord’s Church. The one established on the Day of Pentecost. Jesus Christ is my pope or High Priest, he sits in heaven and rules with His Father unlike ur pope who sits in Rome and is a sinner.
Please the study Bible you seem to quote inappropriately. The Bible teaches liars can end up in Hell for ALL eternity.
I spend many, many hours each week studying God’s infallibe word. How bout you? You seem to be unable to quote from God’s word. Are you ashamed of it or just don’t know it?
Liars can be forgiven, those who refuse and ignore God’s word will be judged by those very words. (John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.”)
Swampfox101, you do NOT NOT come to this Catholic thread & have a theological discussion about the Bible or Christianity.
Swampfox101, you come here to lie & hate. You misquote people’s comments & make dishonest statements.
Swampfox101, you quote the Bible inappropriately. You are the ‘pope of your own armchair church.’
Swampfox101, let me quote the Bible for you appropriately:
Proverbs6: 16-19,
‘There are six things the Lord hates,
yes, seven are an abomination to him;
Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood;
A heart that plots wicked schemes,
feet that run swiftly to evil,
The false witness who utters lies,
and he who sows discord among brothers.
It’s not possible to have a discussion with someone who is NOT NOT truthful. Swampfox101, you come to this tread just to lie & hate.
What church do you belong to? Based on your comments, it sounds like you only have your own church; it sounds like you think you are the pope of your armchair church.
gghd I belong to the Lord’s Church. I have told you this time after time.
You are having a hard time defending your positions because they are based on man and not God.
Every position that I have taken has been based on God’s word and I have given you scripture to back it up. You just don’t like what God word teaches.
You consider the words of a sinful man, the pope, to be infallible but consider the word of God to be fallible. I couldn’t defend that position either.
In Christ.
(2nd Timothey 2:15 “Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”)
Swampfox101, All Christians belong to the ‘Lord’s Church’ in a mysterious way. The Roman Catholic Church is the >True Lord’s Church.
From your comments, I’m beginning to realize you are a very deceitful person. You should have been honest when you came on to this Catholic thread. You should have said outright that you consider yourself ‘the pope of the scriptures.’
Swampfox, you should have told us that you consider yourself to be ‘infallible.’
Swampfox, you quote scripture that does NOT address the infallibility of the Catholic Pope.
Swampfox, the fact that you quote scripture to justify your position (even though, it does NOT NOT actually address Infallibility) leads me to believe you consider yourself to be the pope of your own armchair church.
Be honest! Do you attend a >real church on Sunday or do you sit and pontificate from your own armchair church?
Not only are you catholic, you know the hearts of men and are a judge. I guess you learned that from your “fathers”, or “pope”, or whatever or whoever you guys have ruling you from Rome these days.
(Eph. 4:5-7 “one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”)
Thank you. I take that as a compliment. I’m obligated to interpret other people’s words in the best manner possible by the Catechism. I ain’t no judge. +++I’m glad I’m NOT NOT the Pope. The Pope is responsible for 7 >Billion souls. It’s in the parable of Talents in Chapter 25 of Matthew.
I’m sorry if I was harsh. + If you are capable of going to a church, you need to go this coming Sunday. There are thousands of them around. Start with a big mega-church, maybe.
I once went to Southern-Baptist church down south once on a Wednesday night. Amazing! There were 3,000 people in a church; all happy to be there on a Wednesday night. On Sunday the church holds 12,000+ people. They had two morning services, I believe. & There was a Sunday night prayer service to Honor God on the ‘Lord Day.’
(Vespers)
Praise God that the Southern Baptist church is a pro-life anti-abortion church.
They spotted me as a new comer. I asked how they knew it. I was told there a group of men & women in the church given the responsibility for each section & knowing who typically sits in which seat & how often.
They made me feel welcome & I was encouraged to come back to their church.
God wants all of us in a church >Honoring God. Obviously, I believe the Catholic Church is the true church. >But any good Protestant church is better than no church.
LOL. I can see why the catholic church is in such disarray.
No problem, you weren’t harsh, I was just making a comment. I don’t fear the judgement of any man. Matt 10:28 “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
I don’t need another church. I am a member of the Lord’s Church. The one that Christ established on the day of Pentecost, not some church that began hundreds of yrs. later. My Church has one head and that is Christ, not some sinful pope. We are guided by God and His word, not the word of some sinful man sitting in Rome. We neither bow down to nor look up to any sinful man as the leader of our Church. That is idol worshiping. There is only ONE GOD and ONE FATHER and he is in heaven, not Rome. I worship nor honor NO sinful man. The catholic church can’t say that. You folks adore and treat the pope, a sinful man, as if he is God himself. You laugh at, mock and despise God’s word but the the words of the pope you treat as infallible. I don’t hate you, I feel sorry for you and all the sheeple that follow that sinful, vile man in Rome.
Dang, swampfox101 you be back like the flu that comes around each year.
Swampfox101, you are obligated by Jesus Christ to love everyone. The Commandment of Jesus Christ is to ‘Love one another as I have loved you.’ + ‘Love God above all things and your neighbor as yourself.’
Your words preach hatred for the Pope & the Catholic Church. The true message of your ‘religion’ comes forth from your heart. It doesn’t matter the words you use. You still persist in being a deceitful man with lying-lips.
You can say somewhere in a post that you ‘don’t hate’ but the fact that you come on to a Catholic thread & state falsehoods about the Catholic Church, misquote people & inappropriately use scripture. = proof of true hatred found in your heart. Swampfox repent your sins.
Hatred for other people should not be found in your heart. Swampfox, you come to a Catholic thread to lie + hate & for no other reason. It’s time to throw yourself on the Mercy of God & ask God to have Mercy on your soul.
There is a reason the Catholic Church has 1.2 billion people officially baptized into it. & There are some folks just sitting in an ‘armchair church’ with delusions of grandeur.
Repent all sins swampfox & ask Jesus Christ to transform your life.
**I am a member of the Lord’s Church. The one that Christ established on the day of Pentecost, **
I didn’t know you were Catholic! Pentecost is the birthday of the Catholic Church. The apostles were the first Bishops.
Or did you miss the line in Scripture about Christ breathing on them and imparting the Holy Spirit to them?
What is the History of Your Church?
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The Lord’s Church established on the day of Pentecost. One head of the Church, Jesus Christ. One Father, God himself. One Spirit, the Spirit of God himself. We have NO creeds, only God’s word. We have no rulers like popes or cardinals, only overseers or elders.
We believe in one Lord, on faith, one baptism, one head of the Church, one God, NO man written creeds only the inspired word of God.
Its the Church you find in the scriptures, the one that Christ died for, the one that is built upon Him and His teachings. Its the one the apostles help build upon the foundation of Christ. Christ is its Chief corner stone and its head.
Everyone who hears God word, believes God’s word, repents of sins, confesses the name of Christ and is baptized for the remission of sins is saved and added to his Church. Just as was done on the day of pentecost when it was established.
Just as the first century Church called themselves Christias, so do we. I am a Christian that is a memeber of the Lord’s Church. We are simply called Christians just as those in the New Testament.
I follow Christ and His teachings so I proudly wear His name.
Who do you follow and serve and who is the head of ur Church? How many heads does ur church have? How many man written creeds does ur church have? Do you follow only God’s word and what it teaches or do you rely upon the creeds and words of men?
you say We believe in one Lord, on faith, one baptism, one head of the Church, one God, -- question, do you believe that the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God -- all God, yet there is only One God? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is both God and man, both natures irrevocably intertwined in the one who is the bridge between man and God?
If yes, I have no quarrel with you, we will debate but not argue
We are a community of priests at every mass, led by the High priest, with his ministerial priests playing their role as do the lay priests.
The Creed is not man-made, but an encapsulation of beliefs.
Remember that the Word of God is Jesus Christ. The Bible is the written word, not the entire Word of God (which is Christ) and like all man-written thigns is open to interpretation, hence the varied interpretations around
I believe Christ is our one and only mediator between God and man.
1 Tim 2:4-6 (4)who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (5) For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, (6) who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
As for the Nicene Creed, I have heard of it but that’s about it. I have never taken time to study it.
And, yes I believe in God, Christ, The Holy Spirit, three personalities but ONE GOD. Thats what the scriptures teach.
Thank you.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.