Posted on 04/24/2012 1:28:27 PM PDT by Jeff Head
Once upon a time there were seven people (or you pick the number).One belonged to a certain Christian denomination and spoke freely of it when asked...declaring his own beliefs and witness for Christ.
Two (or whatever grouping) of the others had belonged to this same organization and years ago had left it, disaffected and hurt by individuals therein that did not treat them well.
Four others (or whatever grouping) belonged to other denominations who did not believe the first one was Christian and who went to great lengths to declare that it was not and tell anyone who would listen how they felt this first denomination believed and felt, and that it was a cult.
The first person, who had been in the denomination for over 40 years and had raised his family therein...and who had themself converted from one of the other denominations those many years before, thanked all of the others for their own Christian beliefs and blessed them for it, but refuted the quotes and talk from the others about how they viewed the beliefs of the first denomination based on his own personal experiences therein, and his own personal faith as a result.
The other six would not believe, and could not allow such confessions of faith to stand and constantly badgered and spoke against the first individual who continued to bless them, but also continued to affirm his own witness of Christ and that of his faith.
The others relentlessly tried to tell him that he did not, that he could not believe those things...and yet he did, and continued to let them know it.
Oh, they would quote from, cut and paste and refer to numerous articles published quoting individuals and even leaders in the first denomination to which the first individual belonged. That individual on numerous occassions replied that the documents they were quoting (like the Journal of Discourses) were not official church doctrine or scripture and did not represent in many cases the offical position of the 1st denomination. This individual refered to the offical denomination site and publications to find the true beliefs of that denomination, which center on Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.
These others went through great mechanisms and oratory to try and explain how the Jesus, born of Mary, raised in Nazareth, taught His Gospel in Judea, was crcified on the cross for the sins of the world and who was resurrected on the third day after His death and would return to earth one day professed by the first individual was absolutely not the same Jesus Christ, born of Mary, raised in Nazareth, taught His Gospel in Judea, was crucified on the cross for the sins of the world and who was resurrected on the third day after His death and would return to earth one day of their own beliefs.
Over and over the discussions went, around and around, month after month.
Whenever the 1st individual would quote experiences of others or witness of his own Christian faith, these others would regurgitate the very same things that had already been discussed, as if though they never had been, and demand him to repudiate, affirm or ignore what they were once again presenting.
The 1st individual on numerous occassions stated his beliefs and assertions again, referred them again to official sites...but was accused of being evasive, of lieing, was damned to hell, and told that he was deceiving others as thanks for his responses.
The next time...and time...and time again, they asked for the same answers to the same assertions. Ultimately the first individual asked them to simply refer to past posts and threads on the matter.
Immediately the cry would go up that now the 1st individual was unwilling to repudiate or affirm and was now ignoring their claims...but the 1st individual simply continued to bear his own witness and once again ask them to...
Look at the other threads where this has been discussed and rehashed ad-nausim for their replies.
Hmmm...sound familiar, Elsie?
Please take your answers from the story, and again, God bless you for your own sincere belief and faith in and reliance upon Jesus Christ who is mighty to save, and your efforts to sincerely witness His love, compassion, and sacrifice for all who profess His name and confess Him and their acceptance of and reliance on Him for their salvation.
The Holy Bible teaches us that none can confess and witness this save those who are moved upon by the Holy Ghost...again, I so witness and confess my own acceptance of, faith in and reliance on Jesus Christ born in Bethelhem of the Virgin Mary, raised in Nazareth, curcified on the cross for the sins and suffering of the world, and arose the 3rd day, who will return in great glory one day to this earth. I look forward to that great day. He is my personal Savior, and I witness and confess Him to you, Elsie, and anyone else reading this thread.
For the littoral barrage of replies that are apt to follow this post, please simply refer back to this very post, or to my own personal testimony linked above, by way of response.
Thanks for introducing the subject of the mormon corporation being a business, rather than a religion.
Ostling (Mormon America) compared the Mormon Church to the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA). They had a similar number of reported members in 1997. At that time, the ELCA had $152 Million in assets that was primarily the pension fund for the employees.
This is compared to the assets of the Mormon Church as reported above. In 1997 the ELCA raised $11.8 Million for humanitarian aid and $3.64 Million for disaster relief for a total of 15.44 Million in cash donations for charity.
In the 14 year period from 1984 1997 the Mormon Church reported cash donations for non-Mormon charity at $30.7 Million, or an average of 2.19 Million per year to the Ostlings. This translates to ELCA donating a little over 10% of its holdings in 1997 and the Mormon Church donating approximately .2% of its holdings.
Most businesses in the United States have higher percentage charitable contributions than does the Mormon Church.
A list of a FEW of the holdings of the mormon empire:
Nebraska-Farmland Reserve Inc-Rex Ranch
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/10/06/national1932EDT0838.DTL
Australia-Agreserves Australia Limited-Kooba Station
http://www.lds.org.au/newsmedia/showmedia.asp?m=%7BA160E0E4-1EB2-493D-841D-4F2C85487485%7D
Agreserves Australia LTD Kooba Station,Australia.
Deseret Ranches of Alberta Raymond,AB Canada
Agreserves LTD Cambridge,England
AgroReservas, S.C. Los Mochis, Mexico
Deseret Farms of CA Woodland, CA
Deseret Farms of CA Modesto,CA
Deseret Farms of CA Chico,CA
South valley Farms Bakersfield, CA
Deseret Security Farms Blythe, CA
Naples Farms Naples,FL
Deseret Cattle & Citrus ST. Cloud, FL
Deseret Farms of Ruskin Ruskin, FL
Kewela Plantation O'ahu,HI
Rex Ranch Ashby, NE
Riverbend Farms ST.Paul, OR
Deseret Land & Livestock Woodruff, UT
Wasatch-Dixie Farms Elberta, UT
Agreserves Cottle CO.,TX
Agrinorthwest kennewick,WA
Handcart Ranch Alcova, WY
Deseret Ranches of Wyoming Cody,WY
And, Jeff by your own admission, these businesses utilize FREE LABOR from members along with their tithing dollars.
What group does Albertson grocery chain belong to?
I don’t see any hospitals on that list.
There are Catholic hospitals, Methodist hospitals, Jewish hospitals, Presbyterian Hospitals and even Masonic Hospitals all within driving distance of my house.
Where are the Mormon Hospitals?
I do note they own a cemetery. Is that for people who can’t make it to the Mormon Hospitals?
I hereby ordain Greyfoxx39 by proxy and call her to the mission field.
How amusing that you believe that the proselytizing by the mormon church (which is NOT a Christian denomination)...and by yourself on this thread should or WOULD be met with acquiescence by Christians.
I am convinced that your mind is shut tight to the messages that we post but there is always the possibility that someone who comes across them will be influenced to seek more information and not be led astray by the propaganda pumped out by the mormon sect on the internet, TV and radio and find the REAL Christ, not the "one who was once a man", the "one who is a brother to Lucifer" or the "one whose mother cohabited with a god to conceive him".
Our goal is that the seeker instead finds the One who is part of the Triune God and didn't have to work His way to perfection, whose Mother conceived as a Virgin and the One who atoned for all our sins on the Cross.
That description of the True "One" is by definition of your OWN doctrine, not your "christ".
Thanks for introducing the subject of the mormon corporation being a business, rather than a religion.
In the 1950's, L. Ron Hubbard admitted that he founded Scientology because it was the easiest way he could think of to make a lot of money.
In 1945 in her famous book, No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith, the historian-biographer, Fawn Brodie, makes a compelling case that the same was true for Joseph: the Mormon Church was founded for the primary purpose becoming a money-making venture for Smith and his family.
Mrs. Brodie noted that Joseph had virtually no practical education (he purportedly completed the third grade), no professional skills, no vocational skills, and significant physical limitations (he was almost crippled when he contracted typhoid at age 8 and the infection eventually centered itself in his leg ... which was almost amputated by surgeons without anesthesia). Joseph did have one remarkable talent, however ... as one newspaper editor put it, "Joseph can sell a muzzle to a dog."
Joseph tried to peddle himself as a purveyor of the occult ... gazing into a peep stone (i.e. crystal ball set in a silver holder) for the avowed purpose of locating buried treasure. Following his March 1826 conviction for fraud in Bainbridge, NY, Joseph turned to a "safer" (from prosecution) trade ... he supposedly "discovered" some "golden plates" and "translated" them using a peep stone in a hat ... leading to the founding of Mormonism and its United Order and Law of Tithing. All of this would financially sustain Joseph for the rest of his life, as well as his extended family and their descendants for generations.
[Head bowed]
[Arm to the Square]
"Lord, hear the words of my mouth".
"If you want to get rich, you start a religion"
L. Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology
"Rookie..."
Joseph Smith, founder and "prophet" of The Mormons
I have an elderly lds aunt and uncle who are on a fixed income, because they have nothing to spare in order to keep their TR, they work for FREE about 30 hours a week (between them) at these “farms”, in exchange for the “tithes”. (Not sure what they have in southern California, that count as “farms”)
egads! Where is that second pic located??
you silly
thats the Mormon temple in Taj Mahal Square in India...
:)
Does one have to follow the Yellow Brick Road to get there?
;)
LDS temple Oakland California
Thanks! I googled it. That smarty pants, Nana!
ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION
of the
CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS
CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
STATE OF UTAH
COUNTY OF SALT LAKE
I, the undersigned, having been duly chosen and appointed President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in conformity with the rites, regulations and discipline of said Church, being desirous of forming a corporation for the purpose of acquiring, holding and disposing of Church or religious society property, for the benefit of religion, for works of charity and for public worship, under and pursuant to the provisions of Chapter 3, Title 19, of the Compiled Laws of Utah, 1917, on "Churches and Religious Societies," and all acts amendatory thereof and supplementary thereto, for that purpose do hereby make and subscribe, in duplicate, the following
First: The name of this corporation shall be the CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.
Second: The object of this corporation shall be to acquire, hold and dispose of such real and personal property as may be conveyed to or acquired by said corporation for the benefit of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a religious society, for the benefit of religion, for works of charity and for public worship. Such real and personal property may be situated, either within the State of Utah, or elsewhere, and this corporation shall have power, without any authority or authorization from the members of said Church or religious society, to grant, sell, convey, rent, mortgage, exchange, or otherwise dispose of any part or all of such property.
Third: The estimated value of the property of which I hold the legal title for the purpose aforesaid, at the time of making these Articles of Incorporation, is One Million, Five Hundred Thousand Dollars.
Fourth: The title of the person making these Articles of Incorporation is "PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS."
Fifth: The corporation seal shall contain the words, "Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," and an impression thereof is hereto affixed.
[Seal] [Signed] Heber J. Grant
President of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints.
STATE OF UTAH
SS:
COUNTY OF SALT LAKE
On this 26th day of November, 1923, before me, Arthur Winter, a Notary Public in and for said County, personally appeared HEBER J. GRANT, who is known to me to be the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing instrument as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and duly acknowledged to me that he executed the same as such President.
[Seal] [Signed] Arthur Winter
Notary Public
Residing at Salt Lake City, Utah.
My commission expires Dec. 1, 1923.
ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION
of the
CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS
CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
STATE OF UTAH ss.
COUNTY OF SALT LAKE
HEBER J. GRANT, being first duly sworn, deposes and says:
That he is now and for more than twenty years last past has been the duly chosen and appointed President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and as such President has been since on or about the 26th day of November, 1923, and now is, the legally constituted Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter=day Saints, a corporation sole; that under and pursuant to Section 18-7-5 R.S.U. 1933 he hereby amends Article "Fourth" of said Articles of Incorporation as now of record in the proper offices of this and other states, said article as amended to read as follows:
Fourth: The title of the person making these articles of incorporation is "President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." He and his successor in office shall be deemed and are hereby created a body politic and corporation sole with perpetual succession, having all the powers and rights and authority in these articles specified or provided for by law. But in the event of death or resignation from office of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or in the event of a vacancy in that office from any cause, the President or Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of said Church, or one of the members of said Quorum thereunto designated by that Quorum, shall, pending the installation of a successor President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, be the corporation sole under these articles, and the laws pursuant to which they are made, and shall be and is authorized in his official capacity to execute in the name of the corporation all documents or other writings necessary to the carrying on of its purposes, business and objects, and to do all things in the name of the corporation which the original signer of the articles of incorporation might do; it being the purpose of these articles that there shall be no failure in succession in the office of such corporation sole.
[Signed] Heber J. Grant
President of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints,
corporation sole.
[Seal]
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 18 day of June, 1940.
[the name of Notary Public not shown on copy of amendment]
(Original in State of Utah Archives, Salt Lake City, Utah)
ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION
of the
CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS
CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.
A UTAH CORPORATION SOLE
Pursuant to the provisions of Section 16-7-5 of the Utah Code Annotated 1953 (as amended) relating to amendments of articles of incorporation of corporations sole, the CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS, a Utah Corporation Sole, does hereby amend its Articles of Incorporation by adding an additional Paragraph V thereto as follows:
Upon the winding up and dissolution of this corporation, after paying or adequately providing for the debts and obligations of the corporation, the remaining assets shall be distributed to a nonprofit fund, foundation or corporation, which is organized and operated exclusively for charitable, educational, or religious and/or scientific purposes and which has established its tax-exempt status under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the undersigned has caused these presents to be executed this 19th day of November, 1973.
CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE
CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY
SAINTS, a Utah Corporation Sole
By: [signed] Harold B. Lee
Harold B. Lee, Corporation Sole
STATE OF UTAH ) ss:
County of Salt Lake )
HAROLD B. LEE, being first duly sworn, deposes and says: That he is now and ever since July 7, 1972, has been the duly chosen and appointed President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and, as such president, is now and ever since said date has been the legally constituted CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS, a Utah Corporation Sole; that the original Articles of Incorporation of said Corporation Sole were executed by Heber J. Grant, President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints; that he, Harold B. Lee, is the successor in office to the said Heber J. Grant; that he, Harold B. Lee, executed the foregoing Articles of Amendment as said Corporation Sole.
[signed] Harold B. Lee
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN to before me this 19th day of November, 1973.
[signed] Wilford W Kirton, Jr
NOTARY PUBLIC
Residing at Salt Lake City, Utah
My commission expires:
2-3-77
First: The name of this corporation shall be the CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.
Second: The object of this corporation shall be to acquire, hold and dispose of such real and personal property as may be conveyed to or acquired by said corporation for the benefit of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a religious society, for the benefit of religion, for works of charity and for public worship. Such real and personal property may be situated, either within the State of Utah, or elsewhere, and this corporation shall have power, without any authority or authorization from the members of said Church or religious society, to grant, sell, convey, rent, mortgage, exchange, or otherwise dispose of any part or all of such property.
Third: The estimated value of the property of which I hold the legal title for the purpose aforesaid, at the time of making these Articles of Incorporation, is One Million, Five Hundred Thousand Dollars.
Fourth: The title of the person making these articles of incorporation is "President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." He and his successor in office shall be deemed and are hereby created a body politic and corporation sole with perpetual succession, having all the powers and rights and authority in these articles specified or provided for by law. But in the event of death or resignation from office of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or in the event of a vacancy in that office from any cause, the President or Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of said Church, or one of the members of said Quorum thereunto designated by that Quorum, shall, pending the installation of a successor President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, be the corporation sole under these articles, and the laws pursuant to which they are made, and shall be and is authorized in his official capacity to execute in the name of the corporation all documents or other writings necessary to the carrying on of its purposes, business and objects, and to do all things in the name of the corporation which the original signer of the articles of incorporation might do; it being the purpose of these articles that there shall be no failure in succession in the office of such corporation sole.
Fifth: Upon the winding up and dissolution of this corporation, after paying or adequately providing for the debts and obligations of the corporation, the remaining assets shall be distributed to a nonprofit fund, foundation or corporation, which is organized and operated exclusively for charitable, educational, or religious and/or scientific purposes and which has established its tex-exempt status under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.
Sixth: The corporate seal shall contain the words, "Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," and an impression thereof is hereto affixed.
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