Once upon a time there were seven people (or you pick the number).One belonged to a certain Christian denomination and spoke freely of it when asked...declaring his own beliefs and witness for Christ.
Two (or whatever grouping) of the others had belonged to this same organization and years ago had left it, disaffected and hurt by individuals therein that did not treat them well.
Four others (or whatever grouping) belonged to other denominations who did not believe the first one was Christian and who went to great lengths to declare that it was not and tell anyone who would listen how they felt this first denomination believed and felt, and that it was a cult.
The first person, who had been in the denomination for over 40 years and had raised his family therein...and who had themself converted from one of the other denominations those many years before, thanked all of the others for their own Christian beliefs and blessed them for it, but refuted the quotes and talk from the others about how they viewed the beliefs of the first denomination based on his own personal experiences therein, and his own personal faith as a result.
The other six would not believe, and could not allow such confessions of faith to stand and constantly badgered and spoke against the first individual who continued to bless them, but also continued to affirm his own witness of Christ and that of his faith.
The others relentlessly tried to tell him that he did not, that he could not believe those things...and yet he did, and continued to let them know it.
Oh, they would quote from, cut and paste and refer to numerous articles published quoting individuals and even leaders in the first denomination to which the first individual belonged. That individual on numerous occassions replied that the documents they were quoting (like the Journal of Discourses) were not official church doctrine or scripture and did not represent in many cases the offical position of the 1st denomination. This individual refered to the offical denomination site and publications to find the true beliefs of that denomination, which center on Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.
These others went through great mechanisms and oratory to try and explain how the Jesus, born of Mary, raised in Nazareth, taught His Gospel in Judea, was crcified on the cross for the sins of the world and who was resurrected on the third day after His death and would return to earth one day professed by the first individual was absolutely not the same Jesus Christ, born of Mary, raised in Nazareth, taught His Gospel in Judea, was crucified on the cross for the sins of the world and who was resurrected on the third day after His death and would return to earth one day of their own beliefs.
Over and over the discussions went, around and around, month after month.
Whenever the 1st individual would quote experiences of others or witness of his own Christian faith, these others would regurgitate the very same things that had already been discussed, as if though they never had been, and demand him to repudiate, affirm or ignore what they were once again presenting.
The 1st individual on numerous occassions stated his beliefs and assertions again, referred them again to official sites...but was accused of being evasive, of lieing, was damned to hell, and told that he was deceiving others as thanks for his responses.
The next time...and time...and time again, they asked for the same answers to the same assertions. Ultimately the first individual asked them to simply refer to past posts and threads on the matter.
Immediately the cry would go up that now the 1st individual was unwilling to repudiate or affirm and was now ignoring their claims...but the 1st individual simply continued to bear his own witness and once again ask them to...
Look at the other threads where this has been discussed and rehashed ad-nausim for their replies.
Hmmm...sound familiar, Elsie?
Please take your answers from the story, and again, God bless you for your own sincere belief and faith in and reliance upon Jesus Christ who is mighty to save, and your efforts to sincerely witness His love, compassion, and sacrifice for all who profess His name and confess Him and their acceptance of and reliance on Him for their salvation.
The Holy Bible teaches us that none can confess and witness this save those who are moved upon by the Holy Ghost...again, I so witness and confess my own acceptance of, faith in and reliance on Jesus Christ born in Bethelhem of the Virgin Mary, raised in Nazareth, curcified on the cross for the sins and suffering of the world, and arose the 3rd day, who will return in great glory one day to this earth. I look forward to that great day. He is my personal Savior, and I witness and confess Him to you, Elsie, and anyone else reading this thread.
For the littoral barrage of replies that are apt to follow this post, please simply refer back to this very post, or to my own personal testimony linked above, by way of response.
How amusing that you believe that the proselytizing by the mormon church (which is NOT a Christian denomination)...and by yourself on this thread should or WOULD be met with acquiescence by Christians.
I am convinced that your mind is shut tight to the messages that we post but there is always the possibility that someone who comes across them will be influenced to seek more information and not be led astray by the propaganda pumped out by the mormon sect on the internet, TV and radio and find the REAL Christ, not the "one who was once a man", the "one who is a brother to Lucifer" or the "one whose mother cohabited with a god to conceive him".
Our goal is that the seeker instead finds the One who is part of the Triune God and didn't have to work His way to perfection, whose Mother conceived as a Virgin and the One who atoned for all our sins on the Cross.
That description of the True "One" is by definition of your OWN doctrine, not your "christ".
“And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God”
Alma 7:10
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Office of First President & Living Prophet® April 21st, 2012
URGENT!
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Oh, good ole apologist Jeff Head, perhaps still wishing that so many Lds general authorities -- each with more Lds church authority in a cut-off toenail than Jeff ever had in his entire lifetime -- haven't gone on record declaring the following...[see also next post as well]:
What have Mormon leaders said about these supposedly "unofficial" Journal of Discourse messages from Mormonism's "General Authorities?"
(1) Who authorized Watt to record the Journal of Discourses? (Brigham Young)
Who ranks highest in the Mormon church to carry out what he assigns? (The "prophet")
So when grassroots Mormons tell us to disregard the "Journal of Discourses" as unofficial, consider this: Who ranks higher, grassroots Mormons? -- Or, an Lds apostle? What did Lds apostle Franklin D. Richards in the JoD preface of vol. 2 reference the JoD as?
The Second Volume of the Journal of Discources needs no recommendation to make it interesting to every Saint who loves to drink of the streams that flow from the fountain of Eternal Truth.
Also...who ranks higher grassroots Mormons? Or, a member of the First Presidency who served in such a role to four different Lds “prophets?” What did this First Presidency official reference the JoD as?
The Journal of Discourses deservedly ranks as one of the standard works of the Church, and every rightminded Saint will certainly welcome with joy every Number as it comes forth from the press..." (President George Q. Cannon, JoD, preface, Vol. 8)
What about Lds leaders within our lifetime? What have Lds leaders said about the JoD?
Well, on March 21, 1963, the Deseret News ran an ad from Lds church leadership about the JoD. The ad read: Every Latter-day Saint should take this opportunity of owning the written words of remarkable teachings from the LDS pulpit. To the clear and vigorous exposition of Latter-day Saint doctrine is added the unmistakable authority of divine inspiration."
What more can we get from leaders re: the JoD? Here church leaders were sqawking that the JoD is...
..."from the LDS pulpit..."
...exposes "Latter-day Saint doctrine" clearly & vigorously...
...presented with "divine inspiration...authority" -- and there's no mistake ("unmistakable" about that)
So, e'en tho many grassroots Mormons will indicate these "Lds leaders" are mistaken re: their assessments of the JoD, note that...
...Three months after that ad appeared in the Deseret News, the assistant manager of the DesNews, Axel J. Andresen, wrote a letter about the JoD to a Mr. H.C. Combes dated June 12, 1963. In a few excerpts from that letter, Mr. Andresen said:
"...the 26 volumes of the 'JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES,'...If anyone tells you that the sermons found therein are not recognized by the Church, they know not what they are talking about. I am sure that the individual is not anyone in authority -- certainly not among the General Authorities...May we also assure you that Deseret Book Company, being the only Church-owned book store, would not distribute literature on the Church, particularly anything as important as the Discourses of the Presidents and Apostles of the Church, without the approval of the Church..."
ALL: This DesNews Asst Mgr says before contemporary Mormons even opened their mouths on this subject, that they "know not what" you "are talking about."
Post #2 on 'What is 'OFFICIAL' Lds authoritative teaching':
Yes ole apologist Jeff Head, perhaps still wishing that so many Lds general authorities -- each with more Lds church authority in a cut-off toenail than Jeff ever had in his entire lifetime -- haven't gone on record declaring the following...
You see, Jeff Head in some way or another supports Brigham Young University...so named after a certain "prophet" by the same name...And what did ole Brigham declare on this matter?
“…Brigham Young has said ‘when he sends forth his discourses to the world they may call them Scripture.’ I say now, when they are copied and approved by me they are as good Scripture as is couched in this Bible…” (Oct. 6, 1870, Journal of Discourses 13:264)
“What is Scripture? When one of the brethren stands before a congregation of the people today, and the inspiration of the Lord is upon him, he speaks that which the Lord would have him speak. It is just as much scripture as anything you will find written in any of these records, and yet we call these the standard works of the church.” (Lds “prophet” Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, 1:186)
“There is scripture other than the standard works. Some people get the idea that the only scripture we have in the Church today is that which is contained in the four standard Church works. Now, the Lord in a revelation has spoken of something else defined scripture. [Then cites D&C 68:2-4].” (The Teachings of [Lds "prophet" Harold B. Lee, p. 148)
“The Lord has told us by revelation to speak as we may be moved upon by the Holy Ghost. When a man speaks as he is moved upon by the Holy Spirit what he says ins the word of the Lord; it is the mind of the Lord, it is scripture, it is the will of the Lord…” ( Lds "prophet" Wilford Woodruff, Sept. 1, 1899, Collected discourses, 1:340-341)
“…I submit that whatever comes from the voices of those who hold the authority is scripture, no matter of what they may speak.” (Of the First Presidency, J. Reuben Clark, Jr. Conference Report, April, 1944, p. 112)
“Anything and everything that affects the well-being of us Latter-day Saints or that has to do with our religion, may become part of that scripture, and when the servants of God speak to us about such things, speaking under the inspiration of the Lord, then their words become scripture.” (Ibid)
“…remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet…” (Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson, “Fourteen Fundamentals of Following the Prophet,” 1980 devotional speeches of the year (Provo, 1981)
“Talk about revelation! You go and read the sermons of President Young, and if you do not believe now that he was a Prophet, I think after you have read them you will be sure he was…” (Cannon, Gospel Truth: Discourses & Writings of President George Q. Cannon 1:155)
“…their [Prophets’] discourses to the Saints, and their official writings should be considered products of their official prophetic calling and should be heeded.” (Church manual: Teachings of the Living Prophets, 1982, p. 21)
“The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray.” (Gen Conf Oct. 1960, p. 78)
Hinckley & many other lds leaders said same thing (Hinckley said it in ’92)
Besides, Lds ensign magazine has told us that eternal principles never change;
current Lds "prophet" Monson has told Mormons that doctrine is constant;
Other members of the past Lds first presidencies have assured us that doctrine can’t be changed, modified, or abrogated, and that doctrine is fixed and unchangeable, that principles/doctrines are eternal;
BYU prof Millet has told us the doctrine of Jesus Christ is the same
And, as indicated in my previous post, even sources like the Journal of Discourses is according to one Lds apostle, “eternal truth”; another past member of the First Presidency told us the JoD deservedly ranks as a “standard work”
Jeff Head would have you believe that ALL -- count 'em all -- these "prophets" and First Presidents (top three hierarchists in the church) I've cited on this and my previous post -- that ALL of them through ALL these decades...are either wrong, misguided, mistaken, or falsely prophesied...and that Jeff alone is right...
Well, perhaps we can agree they are all false prophets, after all...