Posted on 01/22/2012 5:15:25 PM PST by bibletruth
God's Word the Bible, declares that a believer already has been saved (using past tense grammar). God's Word declares that a believer already has the possession of heaven with all its blessings!
Some lesson....
All these verses posted about what one has to do to earn salvation and it ends with the claim of salvation being of grace? The first one being taken out of context even.
Those verses only support the POV that salvation is NOT of grace, but of works.
Thanks for demonstrating so clearly the twisted reasoning used by people who don’t accept Scripture as their final authority but rather rely on the traditions of men for their salvation.
“He that believeth and IS BAPTIZED shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
I agree 100%. Please note that their are two requirements: believing and baptism. If one truly believes, then their actions will be to follow the commands. Words without actions are but empty vessels. If we say we believe and do not follow His commands, then we are liars. Thus, meeting one of the two criteria does not result in being saved.
Can a child with Down’s Syndrome partake of the Eucharist? Can a retarded person take part in the Mass? Could Rosemary Kennedy or someone of her mental capacity be received at the altar of Christ to partake of His body and blood? They MUST believe that the wafer and wine are turned into the blood and body of Christ. What if they don’t have the mental capacity to “believe”, as the Catholic Church teaches? WHat becomes of those whose IQ limits their ability to “believe” what the CC says is necessary in order to participate in Mass, and therefore salvation itself.?
They believe far stronger than the person with the logical intellectual mind who constantly brings in doubt. Remember, Peter believed, but what happened when he was walking on water and doubt entered?
So Rome does not refuse someone with limited IQ to understand what Rome claims is happening during the Eucharist to partake of it?
Works do NOT save anyone. It's the faith that does. Works are the natural outgrowth of that saving faith but are not necessary for it.
Nor are adding works to intellectual assent going to do any good.
To me, that is the BIG danger and pitfall of saying that works save or that they are necessary FOR salvation. That is that someone will believe intellectually and think that putting works on intellectual assent = salvation. They have then been deceived by thinking that if they add a few of the *right* works, being baptized, taking communion, feeding the hungry, etc, that they've got saving faith.
Doing the do's as a matter of self-discipline doesn't wash with God if the heart is not right. The Pharisees had all the works of the Law down pat but still were not saved. Perfect outward performance is no guarantee of anything.
King David committed blatant, outward, gross sin, sin that virtually anybody or any denomination would say is clear evidence of having not been saved, and God still considered him a man after God's own heart and went to great lengths to restore him rather than condemn his as so many of the religious would do today.
Lot was called *righteous Lot*, hardly the term I would use to describe Lot based on his life decisions, but again, God looks on the heart.
Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
God is the loving, heavenly father who longs for fellowship with us and wants to have us come to Him. He is not looking for excuses to reject us, *oops you sinned, too bad for you* but is looking to restore. He is not the capricious, judgmental, harsh, intolerant God portrayed by the Catholic church, one who has to be appeased by prayers to saints, Mary, penance, begging for mercy, following every little rule and regulation set forth by the Catholic, hoping against hope that in the end you might be found *worthy* of a place in heaven, because God is so hard to please and you won't find out until you get there.
That is NOT a father's heart and that is NOT how God portrays Himself to us in Scripture.
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
“Works do NOT save anyone. It’s the faith that does. Works are the natural outgrowth of that saving faith but are not necessary for it.”
However, Ye shall know a tree by the fruit it bears. If the fruits “works” are sin, then the actions of sin are the works and that tree bears bad fruit. In that case, thy faith is shallow or based upon lies and the result is that their is no room for the Holy Spirit.
While works are not necessary to be saved; Works that are inconsistent with the behavior of one who is saved means that their faith is based upon a lie. That shallow faith is much less than that of a mustard seed.
I think we are in agreement. We are just discussing semantics.
And cb: Wafer Christ
Wow, talk about forming one's one religion. What other fine words the burning in the bosom makes, eh?
“So Rome does not refuse someone with limited IQ to understand what Rome claims is happening during the Eucharist to partake of it?”
I cannot speak for Rome, but I know my Father’s unconditional Love.
Faith is enough if it is real.
Too many have faith but no works. For me it is not exclusively what a person believes. It is whether or not what a person believes is the motivating factor in their life.
I can tell my family the gospel and they tell me they believe. But I don’t see in there lives that the gospel has made a difference in their lives. So, do they believe the gospel?
I can’t see their heart so I don’t truthfully know if they are saved or not. But faith without works is dead being alone.
I thank God that I was not raised a Catholic...It’s got to be extra tough to get thru all the misinformation and false teaching and find Jesus...
I thank God that I was not raised a Catholic...It’s got to be extra tough to get thru all the misinformation and false teaching and find Jesus...
Well, why don’t you tell me. Does physical water wash sins away? Can someone take a daily bath and be cleansed of sin?
One of your cohorts claimed the thief was saved by the 'baptism of desire' which of course doesn't exist in the scriptures, and provided all kind of links to people who claim they have some sort of insight on the subject...
So much for Catholic unity, even in baptism...
As I keep reading, perhaps I'll even get a third Catholic view...
I believe every word Jesus said, when he was speaking to synagogue attending Jews...
I believe everything Jesus said to the Jews before the 'church' was instituted...
I believe everything Jesus said to the Jews who were still under the Laws and Ordinances of Israel...
I believe everything Jesus said to those who were under the law and faith who had not yet been given the new revelation in Romans 3...
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
You don't have Romans 3:21 in your catechism, do you....
I think so too.
Good for you. So you reject all the New Testament books after the Gospels, eh?
Really -- then why did you claim to be Catholic in 2008? Strange....
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