Posted on 01/22/2012 5:15:25 PM PST by bibletruth
God's Word the Bible, declares that a believer already has been saved (using past tense grammar). God's Word declares that a believer already has the possession of heaven with all its blessings!
It is right there between the Trinity and your man made idea of Sola Scriptura.
Seriously read the link I provided that will give you the basis for that. http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/currenterrors/bapdesire.htm
You will see it described in Luke 23:39-43
Luk 23:39 And one of the malefactors that were hanged railed on him, saying, Art not thou the Christ? save thyself and us. Luk 23:40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, Dost thou not even fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? Luk 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. Luk 23:42 And he said, Jesus, remember me when thou comest in thy kingdom. Luk 23:43 And he said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise.
Also just a suggestion here; Your knee jerk reaction of: "where is that in the Bible?" is wearing a bit thin. Try looking at the links that Salvation and others and I have posted and you might actually learn something about the Church you are attacking.
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (18ο λογος γαρ ο του σταυρου τοις μεν απολλυμενοις μωρια εστιν τοις δε σωζομενοις ημιν δυναμις θεου εστιν)It's a process that's initiated in this life. It's finalized upon his return when you stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Nothing will keep you from being there, unless you turn away and are lost.
--I Corinthians 1:18
"For we are to God the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing." (15οτι χριστου ευωδια εσμεν τω θεω εν τοις σωζομενοις και εν τοις απολλυμενοις)
II Corinthians 2:15
| 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. |
| 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. |
| 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. |
| 25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. |
1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua), and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."
to baptize (Greek baptizein) means to "plunge" or "immerse"; the "plunge" into the water symbolizes the catechumen's burial into Christ's death, from which he rises up by resurrection with him, as "a new creature."
1215 This sacrament is also called "the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit," for it signifies and actually brings about the birth of water and the Spirit without which no one "can enter the kingdom of God."
Titus 3:5
| 5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; |
| 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. |
1216"This bath is called enlightenment, because those who receive this [catechetical] instruction are enlightened in their understanding . . . ." Having received in Baptism the Word, "the true light that enlightens every man," the person baptized has been "enlightened," he becomes a "son of light," indeed, he becomes "light" himself:
Jn 1:9
| 9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. |
| 5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. |
| 32But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; |
| 8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: |
| 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. |
| 16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name. |
| 1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. |
| 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God |
| 13 For we were all baptized by[a] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. |
| 26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ |
| to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, |
| 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[a] was put off when you were circumcised by[b] Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. |
| 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, |
One cannot even say this was a symbol -- look at all of the examples above, look at the language, consistently same the same in each, that in baptism we are saved and buried with Christ, washed of our sins by this and born again
Remember, the words of Jesus Christ Himself in Matthew 28:19
| 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, |
Furthermore, they don't know scripture despite their colorful invectives.
The thief was saved as per the old Covenant.
i'm sorry, that is incorrect and puts a limitation on Christ's own words:this is what Jesus said
Isn't Jesus pretty clear? you MUST have faith to be saved by the freely given grace of salvation, however, it is not faith ALONE
Do you believe Jesus's words or not?
Really? does your post hence say that the Bible is not inerrant? wow...
Catholics, Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrians. Oh and Luthrans hold that baptism is a sacrament too -- a "means of grace" as the washing of regeneration. From Luther'sSmaller Catechism, that baptism "works forgiveness of sins, delivers from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare."
oh, and we don’t say miracles or talking in tongues cannot occur in real life — those are your Calvinist friends... however, on some parts they have a point where folks like Benny etc. babble and pretend to talk in tongues...
yup, congratulations -- the philosophy of "sola interpretura" leads to this where everything is up for "change" and hope.. congratulations guys!
AN EXCELLENT SOBERING SERMON . . .
related to being acceptable to God and ready for Heaven. . .
BY UGANDAN PASTOR JOHN MULINDE about being sold out to Jesus and forsaking sin etc:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4WSe5tK_2Y
Amen.
But it IS for us today. Matthew 24:44.
“OK, I have a question for you. No disrespect intended, just two simple questions:
Do you consider the proof of experience to be equal with the proof that is in the Bible?
Or do you consider the proof of experience to be greater than proof that is in the Bible?”
The proof of the experience takes one from believing based upon faith to knowing based upon experience. It does not discount one word of the Bible but serves to remove any iota of doubt. For me, it is the experience that validated the Bible as the True Word of God.
I do workshops where I teach the “Word of God.” In them, I go beyond what most are able to understand from the Bible teachings. But the Bible is my foundation and I will always state... “If anything that I say is inconsistent with the Bible scriptures, please bring it to my attention as I am wrong. (or their is a different interpretation of that scripture that is supportable by other cross-referencing scriptures and word origin study.)
In the end result, the Bible is always correct.
Too many Christians say “Jesus is my Savior.” but treat Him like a lifeguard that can pluck them from drowning (i.e. save their soul after they die) Which would you sooner have, a lifeguard that waits until you are drowning and rescues you, or a lifeguard that teaches you how to swim? While Jesus has the ability to save us from drowning(rescuing our souls after we die), He much prefers to teach us how to swim.
For me personally, Jesus is my savior because He lowered himself to our level by being born in the flesh to teach us how to raise ourselves up and be a part of his body. Remember what He said to the disciples when He sent them out.. “The things that I do and more, you too shall do in my name.” That statement is the truth if people only learned how to swim. Most are still trying to tread water and are asleep. That is what He was referring to in the parable of the tares in the wheat. Truly, most people are still asleep. There is far more truth in the Bible than most comprehend, but it does not come to light until you experience it. Let those who have ears hear.
“Mark 16:16 He that believeth and IS BAPTIZED shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
In other words if you believe you will be baptized for the remission of your sins. For some unknown reason people overlook this fact.”
Remember what Jesus said after He healed.. “Go and son no more!” Baptism is fine to cleanse the soul, but we are constant sinners. I used to ask myself why I observed the “born agains” making the same mistakes again. Baptism with water is only the first step. Remember what John said..” “There is one greater than me that will Baptize with the Spirit.”
That is why, when Jesus healed the ten lepers, He stated that “only the one who praised God was made whole.” Experiencing God is what Brother Lawrence referred to as “Practicing the Presence of God” in all that we do, at all times. A one time Baptism is merely opening the door. It is our commitment to our Master Jesus that we accept him and follow His teachings. Remember what 1John 4 says: If you say that you love God, but do not love your neighbor, then you are a liar.” I go further and say, if you do not Love thy neighbor, then you are living in sin and have not been fully Baptized by the Holy Spirit.
That being said, I am on the same path as everyone else in being a repeating sinner and constantly working to cleanse my soul in order to be constantly Baptized by the Spirit. As without His Spirit within me, I am nothing.
If we believe, we must follow his commands. If we say we believe and we do not follow His commands, then we are liars. Yes, I too am often a liar.
If God is Love, then life is about finding and removing the obstacles to Love that exist within us.
Remember what Jesus said, “There are many who will use my name, and cast out demons in my name. But yet I do not know them.”
There are many out there who proclaim to be saved by Him, but yet He does not know them. I say this with much sadness as it is my prayer that all find Him and hold Him in their hearts. That is the true communion. The “Living Water” that causes one to thirst no more.
“You mean infants? “
When you look into the eyes of a child, you see the purity of their soul. They are without sin. That is why Jesus said, “In order to know they Father, you must be like a child.”
The eyes truly are the windows of the soul.
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