ONE mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus

Bible 1 Timothy 2:5 | 2012 | BibleTruth

[bibletruth]

1 Timothy 2:5 ...one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

If there is a debate here then it must follow Bible Scriptures to advocate reproofs, corrections, and instructions on how God the Father has ordained and appointed someone other than HIS SON Christ Jesus as that mediator. In light of 1 Timothy 2:5 - there is no debate here since God's Word clearly points out that that mediator is is Christ Jesus, who has been appointed 2,000 years ago between God and men.

[RobbyS]

We can only be saved because of what Christ has done for us. We are not saved based on what we do for Him. Where do you get this from what you have quoted? We can do nothing “for” God, except keep our promises to Him, that is do his will, and return the love he offers to us.

[RobbyS]

It is a “half-truth” if it does not fit your theory?

[RobbyS]

It is a “half-truth” if it does not fit your theory?

[CynicalBear]

>>It is a “half-truth” if it does not fit your theory?<<

Theory? Which one of the following two scriptures is theory would you say?

>>James 2:24, 26 - “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone... For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead.”

Now let’s continue on beyond the Satanic half truth always put forth.

“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:28-29

[RobbyS]

CCC 1851. It is precisely in the Passion of Christ, when the mercy of Christ is about to vanquish sin that it most clearly nakedly shows itself. ...unbelief, murderous hatred, shunning and mockery by the leaders and the people, Pilate’s cowardice and the cruelty of the soldiers, Judas’ betrayal--so bitter to Jesus and Peter’s denial, and the disciple’s flight. However, at the very hour of darkness, the hour of the oprince of this world, the sacrifice of Christ secretely becomes the source from which the forgiveness of our sins will flow forth i inexhaustibly.

[narses]

[CynicalBear]

The in depth study and understanding of scripture and your ability to articulate is truly a testament to the church you purport to defend.

[narses]

Yep the odd views of a poster who claims that Catholics are idolaters, that those who celebrate Easter and Christmas are pagans and that claims that the idea of church on Sunday is a man made tradition and apparently not either Christian or Biblical. Given that this is the point of view from which you view the world, why should anyone pay attention to your odd, often incomplete and often misread cut-n-pastes?

[CynicalBear]

>> Given that this is the point of view from which you view the world, why should anyone pay attention to your odd, often incomplete and often misread cut-n-pastes?<<

So show from scripture where I am wrong.

[narses]

BOOOOORING!

[Salvation]

From David MacD:

Isn't there only one mediator between God and man?

I got an email that said:

Christ is the one and only mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24)...It can not be made any clearer in the scriptures that God wants to communicate with us directly, and to be cautious of those who try to step in to mediate.

1 Timothy 2 does not say that God wants us only to communicate with Jesus. It says there is only one mediator between God and man, which is a different thing. The passage does not say we should be cautious of asking people to pray for us. It doesn't do anything of the sort. The chapter begins requiring intercessory prayer by 3rd parties, indicating that it actually helps bring people to salvation and knowledge of truth. Any mother who prays for her children knows that.

1. I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone ...This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4. who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

We cannot read the rest of the chapter without considering that overarching idea. I think that Christians in heaven pray through Christ much better than you and me. They are much closer to Christ than you and me. Evangelicals pray for each other, and they don't say they are taking God's place. When we pray for one another we are participating in the mediation, we are not the mediator. Catholics feel that saints in heaven, including Mary, can pray for us just as well (or infinitely better) than our friends on earth.

In Hebrews 8:6, it says Jesus has obtained a more excellent ministry than any of the high priests. In 9:15 and 12:24 the passage goes on to say he is the mediator of a New Covenant, Catholics fully agree. We fully agree he is the mediator. We think Christians in heaven are a heck of a lot more aware of who Christ is than we are. The Bible says that he has helpers that participate in his ministry by his invitation. We believe he has invited Christians on both sides of heaven to do that.

When a saint enters into the joy of their Master, they are "put in charge of many things" (Mat 25:21)

Saints are serious prayer warriors. I don't think that praying with the Saints detracts from the worship of God anymore than praying with friends detracts from worship of God, which I do a lot. Saints are not all knowing, but they know a heck of a lot more about this spiritual game than me. They are creatures. This does not take away the tremendous benefit we can get from communing with them. Catholics think "their intercession is their most exalted service to God's plan. We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world" (Catechism 2683)

[narses]

My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.

Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.

Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.

Amen.

[boatbums]

Where do you get this from what you have quoted? We can do nothing “for” God, except keep our promises to Him, that is do his will, and return the love he offers to us.

Look again at what I said, "We can only be saved because of what Christ has done for us. We are not saved based on what we do for Him.". That is hardly saying we do nothing for God. Of course, he calls us to obedience and holiness, to flee from sin, to honor God in all we do and to love one another as he has loved us. But these actions can NOT save us. That verse I posted from I John, says clearly that we are saved NOT because we love God but because He loved us. In Titus 3:4-7 says, "But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.".

In the very next verse we are told, "This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone." We SHOULD always strive to do what is good because of what he has done for us. He saved us when we were absolutely helpless to save ourselves. We do good because we are saved NOT to be saved. Like James says in chapter 2:24, "You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.". That is what others see and how others see our faith by what we do. Where God is concerned, we are justified by faith, made righteous in and through Christ. Man looks at the outside, God looks at the heart.

[boatbums]

No, what is boring is seeing people who haunt and taunt others from thread to thread with nothing of value to add to the topic discussed except their childish pictures and out-of-context challenges. If you want to discuss someones views ask them instead of trying to smear them before everyone else’s eyes. I see a sad attempt to get attention without having to put any thought into a sensible reply. Is this really all you got???

[Tramonto]

Is this "imputed righteousness" --God overlooking our sins? (I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "favor" here.)

The way I see it, grace is referring to imputed righteousness but the plain meaning of the word grace is just the unearned favor of God.

If you replace "grace" with "mercy" the verse's meaning would be changed a bit but the statement would still be true in my opinion.

8 For by grace mercy you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Now if you are like me and you read the above verse with mercy instead of grace, you would understand that mercy isn't a spiritual substance or even the Holy Spirit, it is just "mercy" but it is referring to everything that God has done and does for us so that we can be saved. That includes the death and resurrection of Jesus and God imputing His righteousness to us. This is how I understand grace.

It seems that Catholics make grace into some sort of spiritual substance or the Holy Spirit.

Sorry for the late response.

[HarleyD]

Catholics believe in infused righteousness —God truly makes us holy by dwelling within us— rather than imputed righteousness —God declaring us holy— by “covering over” our sins with His atoning Sacrifice.

Infused righteousness:

The doctrine states that through keeping the commands of Christ, regular confession and penance, and receiving the sacraments, God’s grace/righteousness is “infused” in believers more and more over time, and their own “righteousness in the flesh” becomes subsumed into God’s righteousness.

Infused Righteousness

One has to wonder then what is the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of the Catholic? And, of course, if you could lose your salvation-commit the "unpardonable" sin-how is believing that you can do certain things to become more like God not works based salvation? Really, to be more like God you have to do certain steps. Doesn't this sound like the serpent command to eat the fruit and become more like God? And, as boatbum and metmom rightfully points out, wouldn't following these steps allow you to feel a sense of pride and satisfaction know that you are becoming more and more like God?

As you've stated, Protestants believe in imputed righteousness by God declaring us holy. While we are being perfected, the Holy Spirit lives in us to guide us and help us in our walk. I noticed in your verses how Paul uses this over and over. Our salvation does not come from ourselves but through Christ who is our sacrifice. We are imperfect creatures and will remain so until we receive our new bodies.

I might point out that imputed righteousness was how the early church fathers viewed salvation. It was Thomas Aquinas who came along with the "infused" righteousness about a 1,000 years later.

[RobbyS]

Choosing to accept Jesus as one’s personal behavior is itself a “work.” A free choice, anyway. When you reject “works,”you are just rejecting the fact of the Church, or rather much of Holy Tradition. Luther rejected the particularities of the Church of Rome; he also rejected the sacramental system, or most of it, that was common to Both Rome and Constantinope. But he accepted a “German”church. Here he had only partial success because the Emperor and the local princes were engaged in a struggle for mastery that ended in a stalemate that left Germany divided religiously. Calvin had a far more coherent, universalist view —a “counter-Catholicism—so it speak. But it is also a very ascetic point of view. In a way it kind of turns the Church into an enlarged monastery. The monks are replaced as the Christian elite by the “Elect.”

[metmom]

When you reject “works,”you are just rejecting the fact of the Church, or rather much of Holy Tradition. Luther rejected the particularities of the Church of Rome; he also rejected the sacramental system, or most of it, that was common to Both Rome and Constantinope. But he accepted a “German”church.

He accepted Christ, not another church even thought he attended one. The same applies to many of us.

We have also rejected religion in favor of a relationship.

You're quite right. We do reject *Holy Tradition* and sacraments as there is nothing in Scripture to support either of those two things.

Holy Tradtion is just a contrivance of the Roman Church in a bid to make their pronouncements and declarations on par with the authority of the revealed word of God and to support their doctrines that they developed for which there is no clear, solid Scriptural support.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

--It seems that Catholics make grace into some sort of spiritual substance or the Holy Spirit.--

The Holy Spirit.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification by the Lutheran World Foundation and the Catholic Church

The biggest problem in Catholic/Protestant dialogue regarding Justification/Sanctification is that the same words are used differently by Catholics and Protestants.