Posted on 01/02/2012 3:13:39 PM PST by RnMomof7
LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy — For the second time in a week, Pope Benedict XVI has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, reasserting the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church and saying other Christian communities were either defective or not true churches.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Yes ! now I see some with links. But I go to Dave armstrong’s site. He has a write ups about this blog. If we isolate church fathers quotes from others. IMHO these people are wrong. I have read early Church Fathers.
Isaiah 55:8: For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isaiah 55:9: For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:10: For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
Isaiah 55:11: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
God's WORD and thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
God's WORD is always right first and above man or any organization; we have only to follow God's WORD which is following the truth of the WORD of God and His Spirit will teach us, not men's infallable spirits and thoughts...
You said that you have read the Early Church Father; whoopee, I read God's WORD to get correct Bible doctrine and teachings, not relying on men's infallable spirits and thoughts... I also own and read the Ante-Nicene Early Church Father's writings; but I hold with them that God's WORD is higher and more esteemed, something more people on this board should do before it's too late for their soul...
Only blood makes an atonement for sin so that is one critical area that Catholicism has gone off the tracks. The idea that "penance" must be done as part of attaining atonement. Nowhere in Scripture is that ever taught. When we receive Jesus Christ as Savior, are born again into the family of God, all our sins are covered by the blood of Christ - we are washed clean by his precious blood. That is past, present and even future sins, because Christ's sacrifice was "once for all". I know some of you guys hear that and go bananas because you envision we are encouraging a sinning free-for-all. "Hey", you say, "You can rob a bank, rape someone, kill someone and you're still going to Heaven?" and when I hear this, it becomes obvious that two things are present. First, that we must do works to be saved, and second, that we must do works - or not do bad things - in order to stay saved.
We know from Scripture that we are saved by grace APART from works. It is through faith that we acquire God's grace gift of eternal life. That means we do nothing to earn or merit that gift. If we did, then it is no longer a gift. We also know from Scripture that when we come to saving faith in Christ, we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, who is the "earnest of our inheritance", sealed until the day of redemption. We have a new nature - a spirit nature - that, through the power of God, frees us from the pull of the old sin nature. We have been freed from the power of sin in our lives, freed to live lives that are holy and pleasing to God. When we DO sin, we do not lose our salvation, because we did not gain it in the first place by good works or not sinning. We are kept by that same grace of God. He, as our Heavenly Father, disciplines and corrects us to conform us to the image of Christ, but nothing we do can UNDO that new birth. THAT is what imputed righteousness is. Through no merit or works of our own, God makes us as righteous as Christ because we are found IN Him. Covered by his blood, our sins are washed away and God no longer imputes our sin to us. As far as the east is from the west so far has he removed our sins from us. That is why David, in the Psalm, says blessed is the man to whom God will not impute sin.
When you say, "St. Paul isn’t sanctioning a dead static faith with God that is once and done.", I answer of course he doesn't. But neither does he teach that works MUST accompany faith in order to be salvific. Works NEVER merit anything towards our salvation, that's why it is all by grace. If works had to be added to the equation, then grace would not be grace. So, I disagree totally with your contention that Protestants believe "Christ’s righteousness covers us like snow on a dunghill". That is quite incorrect because only in the Old Testament sacrificial system was sin "covered". The blood of the sacrifice was a temporary measure only until Christ, the Messiah, came and shed his blood to take sin away completely. What was an "expiation" became a "propitiation" and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. When God looks at us, he sees the righteousness of Christ. The righteousness that is IMPUTED to us by grace through faith.
Protestants, and even Roman Catholics (in Vatican II), other than this pope apparently, acknowledge an “invisible Church” which transcends all human organizations—the members of whom are only known, ultimately by God Himself.
Think about it, are all those whose names are on the Church roles really Christians? Are false Roman Catholics—who’ve been baptized but who really don’t believe in Jesus, or the creeds of the Church really Christians...even though outwardly they appear to believe? Of course we should treat professing Christians as Christians...but, only God really knows the heart. Therefore, even assuming Roman Catholic is the “only true Church” (which I do not), you have the visible Church (all who profess to be Catholics) and the invisible Church (the sincere, true Christians among the members of the visible Church). Persons in Heaven too—whose names and graves here on earth are long forgotten are also part of that “invisible Church.”
So it isn’t perfect doctrine or even the most right doctrine in a Church that defines it—rather faith and trust in Jesus—which makes a person a Christian, and part of the larger—trans-denominational, invisible Church.
As soon as any Roman Catholic calls someone a Christian who’s not a Roman Catholic....they are assuming this idea of an invisible Church.
As to the idea “There is, at most, only one doctrine that can be true” you are missing something. The gospel of Jesus and the purest true heavenly theology are certainly too glorious to be understood fully—in all their aspects. As St. Augustine taught, we apprehend God’s spiritual truths...we don’t comprehend them. In fact all of eternity for us will probably be spent finding new wonders of God’s grace...
My point is this, is that every body of believers in Jesus, that is a Church, is likely wrong about some things, and right about others....and while some Churches are surely more wrong than others—and some have a more pure doctrine than others—we all, as St. Paul said in 1 Cor. 13, “see through a glass darkly.”
If the Apostle who wrote 1/3 of the New Testament can say that—than surely we who’ve come since—including the Roman Church, should also admit—we all still see through a glass darkly. This isn’t giving into subjectivism—its only acknowledging human limits. Yes there are some errors that disqualify a Church as a Church (denying the truths, say in the Apostles or Nicene Creeds for example) but it is sheer institutional arrogance to claim “we are the only true church organization.”
Jesus accepts all who call upon His name and truly believe in Him.
I hope your holidays were happy and I pray you have a peaceful and restful night. Happy new year!
Just to know that they lie when they say they want "unity" they want us all to forsake Christ and come back yo "pa pa"
Just shows lying hypocrisy
I Pray Thee Well and Family This New Year coming!! Praise Jesus!!!
Very poorly written article,especially in its reference to Dominus Iesus. The article leaves out quite a bit of what is written on Protestant sects giving a very false impression. They neglected to include this because it did not serve their stir up everybody agenda.
“Therefore, these separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”.66
The defects written of are not of personal,ethical or moral nature but pertain to the Ecclesiology of the sects in that they do not Apostolic Succession.
“Catholics” do not determine what the Church teaches. That can only come from revelation, infallibly determined for all time. There should be no doubt that Roman Catholicism has always claimed to be the One True Faith (despite modernist obfuscation by liberal churchmen).
You seem to be saying that there is no true faith and that all religions are false to some degree. That is not the Catholic position.
“See through a glass darkly” means that we cannot appreciate the full glory of God, at least while still on earth. It does not mean that we should accept error. We must never be willing to do that.
For St. Paul says, “though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema. As we have said before, so say I now again, if any man preacheth unto you any gospel other than that which ye received, let him be anathema.”
Jesus also said:Mat 23:8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.
I guess you can't call anyone Doctor either since that means teacher or instructor.
Yeah don't let the facts get in the way of bigotry
‘Self-centered monk’ when a group calls it’s leader ‘Holy Father’ is cultish and bordering on blasphemy. I do have a Holy Father but he doesn’t sit in Rome.
I see Protestant bigotry is alive and well on FR.
Non taken.. We as LCMS Lutheran believe simliarly about other churches, they are all churches but are heterodox instead of orthodox churches.
The same verse also says call no man “teacher,” so I assume you refuse to use that term too? BTW, what did you call the man you gave you half your genes?
The same verse also says call no man “teacher,” so I assume you refuse to use that term too? BTW, what did you call the man you gave you half your genes?
The same verse also says call no man “teacher,” so I assume you refuse to use that term too? BTW, what did you call the man you gave you half your genes?
The same verse also says call no man “teacher,” so I assume you refuse to use that term too? BTW, what did you call the man you gave you half your genes?
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