Pope highlights Mary's role as 'woman of the apocalypse'

Ever notice how anti-Catholics have (and I mean routinely) poor reading skills?

Go ask Michael Servetus what I think of men like Calvin.

Servetus was a Unitarian. Are you?

Who thinks up this stuff anyway??

maybe Simon Magus, Babylon?

The woman symbolizes the elect.

"The elect" don't give birth to Jesus. Jesus gives new birth to them through baptism.

The woman of Revelation 12 does give birth to Jesus; the text flatly says so. It's amazing what you learn when you actually read the Bible, instead of just believing what "Brother So-and-so" tells you about it.

>>What a thing to advise someone to do. Please read the Bible and learn what the Scriptures have to say.<<

You obviously missed the meaning of my post entirely. Good grief. Did you even bother to check the post I was responding to? I was accused of looking to men like Calvin as inspiration. I responded with the post I did to show that Calvin was an evil man who had Servetus burned at the stake. My intent was to show that I would look at Calvin the way Servetus did. Reading comprehension man.

“it’s Israel, the church”? Has this thread become the center for myth and fables? The women in Revelation 12 is Israel. Also the “whore of Babylon” is not a political entity but is a religious entity “With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication”. The “whore of Babylon” is the “mother of harlots” meaning out of her all apostate religions sprang.

>>Servetus was a Unitarian.<<

And Calvin retained his murderous ways from his Catholicism.

Here are some Catholic views with Scripture and Tradition of early Church Fathers to Modern era.

Revelation Chapter 12

1 And a great sign was seen in heaven: a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars; [Return to Original Document]

Parallel

RSV 1: And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;

NRSV 1 A great portent appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

Douay 1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:

NAB 1 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

KJV 1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

WEB 1 A great sign was seen in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

ESV 1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

NASB 1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;

NIV 1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

YOUNG 1 And a great sign was seen in the heaven, a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars,

Greek 1: kai <2532> {AND} shmeion <4592> {A SIGN} mega <3173> {GREAT} wfqh <3700> (5681) {WAS SEEN} en <1722> {IN} tw <3588> {THE} ouranw <3772> {HEAVEN;} gunh <1135> {A WOMEN} peribeblhmenh <4016> (5772) {CLOTHED WITH} ton <3588> {THE} hlion <2246> {SUN,} kai <2532> {AND} h <3588> {THE} selhnh <4582> {MOON} upokatw <5270> {UNDER} twn <3588> podwn <4228> authV <846> {HER FEET,} kai <2532> {AND} epi <1909> {ON} thV <3588> kefalhV <2776> authV <846> {HER HEAD} stefanoV <4735> {A CROWN} asterwn <792> {OF STARS} dwdeka <1427> {TWELVE;}

Vulgate 1 et signum magnum paruit in caelo mulier amicta sole et luna sub pedibus eius et in capite eius corona stellarum duodecim

ASV 1 And a great sign was seen in heaven: a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars;

Darby 1And a great sign was seen in the heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars;

NKJV 1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.

Other Related Passages

Psalms 104 2: who coverest thyself with light as with a garment, who hast stretched out the heavens like a tent,

Song of Solomon 6 10: "Who is this that looks forth like the dawn, fair as the moon, bright as the sun, terrible as an army with banners?"

Matthew 24 30: then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory;

Galatians 4 26: But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.

Revelation 11 19: Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

Library References

Victorinus [240-303 AD]

Commentary on the Apocalypse of the Blessed John 1. "And there was seen a great sign in heaven. A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. And being with child, she cried out travailing, and bearing torments that she might bring forth." The woman clothed with the sun, and having the moon under her feet, and wearing a crown of twelve stars upon her head, and travailing in her pains, is the ancient Church of fathers, and prophets, and saints, and apostles, which had the groans and torments of its longing until it saw that Christ, the fruit of its people according to the flesh long promised to it, had taken flesh out of the selfsame people. Moreover, being clothed with the sun intimates the hope of resurrection and the glory of the promise. And the moon intimates the fall of the bodies of the saints under the obligation of death, which never can fail. For even as life is diminished, so also it is increased. Nor is the hope of those that sleep extinguished absolutely, as some think, but they have in their darkness a light such as the moon. And the crown of twelve stars signifies the choir of fathers, according to the fleshly birth, of whom Christ was to take flesh. [Read More]

Methodius [Unknown]

Banquet of the Ten Virgins (Discourse 8)

John, in the course of the Apocalypse, says: "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: and she, being with child, cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man-child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to His throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days." So far we have given, in brief, the history of the woman and the dragon. But to search out and explain the solution of them is beyond my powers. Nevertheless, let me venture, trusting in Him who commanded to search the Scriptures. If, then, you agree with this, it will not be difficult to undertake it; for you will quite pardon me, if I am unable sufficiently to explain the exact meaning of the Scripture. [Read More]

Haydock, Fr. George Leo [1774-1849 AD]

Revelation 12

Ver. 1. A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet. By this woman, interpreters commonly understand the Church of Christ, shining with the light of faith, under the protection of the sun of justice, Jesus Christ. The moon, the Church, hath all changeable things of this world under her feet, the affections of the faithful being raised above them all. --- A woman: the Church of God. It may also, by allusion, be applied to our blessed Lady [the Virgin Mary]. The Church is clothed with the sun, that is, with Christ: she hath the moon, that is, the changeable things of the world, under her feet; and the twelve stars with which she is crowned, are the twelve apostles: she is in labour and pain, whilst she brings forth her children, and Christ in them, in the midst of afflictions and persecutions. (Challoner) --- On her head....twelve stars, her doctrine being delivered by the twelve apostles and their successors. (Witham) [Read More]

Newman, John Henry [1801-1890 AD]

Meditations and Devotions - Part 1

Thus was it that she became the Mother of the Christ, not in that way which pious women for so many ages had expected Him, but, declining the grace of such maternity, she gained it by means of a higher grace. And this is the full meaning of St. Elizabeth's words, when the Blessed Virgin came to visit her, which we use in the Hail Mary: "Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb." And therefore it is that in the Devotion called the "Crown of Twelve Stars" we give praise to God the Holy Ghost, through whom she was both Virgin and Mother. On the Annunciation (7) May 16 Mary is the "Mater Salvatoris," the Mother of the Saviour [Read More]

Catholic Encyclopedia

Blessed Virgin Mary

Apocalypse 12:1-6 [Read More]

The applicability of this passage to Mary is based on the following considerations: At least part of the verses refer to the mother whose son is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; according to Psalm 2:9, this is the Son of God, Jesus Christ, Whose mother is Mary. It was Mary's son that "was taken up to God, and to his throne" at the time of His heaven. The dragon, or the devil of the earthly paradise (cf. Apocalypse 12:9; 20:2), endeavoured to devour Mary's Son from the first moments of His birth, by stirring up the jealousy of Herod and, later on, the enmities of the Jews. Owing to her unspeakable privileges, Mary may well be described as "clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars". It is true that commentators generally understand the whole passage as applying literally to the Church, and that part of the verses is better suited to the Church than to Mary. But it must be kept in mind that Mary is both a figure of the Church, and its most prominent member. What is said of the Church, is in its own way true of Mary.

Hence the passage of the Apocalypse (12:5-6) does not refer to Mary merely by way of accommodation [108], but applies to her in a truly literal sense which appears to be partly limited to her, and partly extended to the whole Church. Mary's relation to the Church is well summed up in the expression "collum corporis mystici" applied to Our Lady by St. Bernardin of Siena. [109] [Read More]

Pius X, Pope [1844-1914 AD] Pope Pius X 2 February 1904 Immaculate Conception 24. Leaving aside charity towards God, who can contemplate the Immaculate Virgin without feeling moved to fulfill that precept which Christ called peculiarly His own, namely that of loving one another as He loved us? 'A great sign,' thus the Apostle St. John describes a vision divinely sent him, appears in the heavens: 'A woman clothed with the sun, and with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars upon her head' (Apoc. xii., 1). Everyone knows that this woman signified the Virgin Mary, the stainless one who brought forth our Head. The Apostle continues: 'And, being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered' (Apoc. xii., 2). John therefore saw the Most Holy Mother of God already in eternal happiness, yet travailing in a mysterious childbirth. What birth was it? Surely it was the birth of us who, still in exile, are yet to be generated to the perfect charity of God, and to eternal happiness. And the birth pains show the love and desire with which the Virgin from heaven above watches over us, and strives with unwearying prayer to bring about the fulfillment of the number of the elect. [Read More]

Pius XII, Pope [1888-1958 AD]

Defining the Dogma of the Assumption

24. Rv 12:1ff. [Read More] Paul VI, Pope [1908-1978 AD] Mary, the Great Sign The great sign which the Apostle John saw in heaven, "a woman clothed with the sun,"[1] is interpreted by the sacred Liturgy,[2] not without foundation, as referring to the most blessed Mary, the mother of all men by the grace of Christ the Redeemer. [Read More]

John Paul II, Pope [1920-2005 AD]

Pope John Paul II 25 March 1987 Mary in Life of Pilgrim Church

11. In the salvific design of the Most Holy Trinity, the mystery of the Incarnation constitutes the superabundant fulfillment of the promise made by God to man after original sin, after that first sin whose effects oppress the whole earthly history of man (cf. Gen. 3:15). And so, there comes into the world a Son, 'the seed of the woman' who will crush the evil of sin in its very origins: 'he will crush the head of the serpent.' As we see from the words of the Protogospel, the victory of the woman's Son will not take place without a hard struggle, a struggle that is to extend through the whole of human history. The 'enmity,' foretold at the beginning, is confirmed in the Apocalypse (the book of the final events of the Church and the world), in which there recurs the sign of the 'woman,' this time 'clothed with the sun' (Rev. 12:1). [Read More]

Thanks to this special bond linking the Mother of Christ with the Church, there is further clarified the mystery of that 'woman' who, from the first chapters of the Book of Genesis until the Book of Revelation, accompanies the revelation of God's salvific plan for humanity. For Mary, present in the Church as the Mother of the Redeemer, takes part, as a mother, in that 'monumental struggle against the powers of darkness'[138] which continues throughout human history. And by her ecclesial identification as the 'woman clothed with the sun' (Rev. 12:1)[139] it can be said that 'in the Most Holy Virgin the Church has already reached that perfection whereby she exists without spot or wrinkle.' Hence, as Christians raise their eyes with faith to Mary in the course of their earthly pilgrimage, they 'strive to increase in holiness.'[140] Mary, the exalted Daughter of Sion, helps all her children, wherever they may be and whatever their condition, to find in Christ the path to the Father's house. [Read More]

EVANGELIUM VITAE (The Gospel of Life)

'A great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun' (Rev 12:1): the motherhood of Mary and of the Church [Read More]

Boundary Between Original Innocence and Redemption 1) Already the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the Septuagint, which goes back to about the 2nd century B.C., interprets Genesis 3:15 in the Messianic sense, applying the masculine pronoun autos in reference to the Greek neuter noun sperma (semen in the Vulgate). The Judaic tradition continues this interpretation. Christian exegesis, beginning with St. Irenaeus (Adv. Haer. III, 23, 7), sees this text as "proto-gospel," which announces the victory won by Jesus Christ over Satan. In the last few centuries scripture scholars have interpreted this pericope differently, and some of them challenge the Messianic interpretation in recent times. However, there has been a return to it under a rather different aspect. The Yahwist author unites prehistory with the history of Israel, which reaches its peak in the Messianic dynasty of David, which will fulfill the promises of Genesis 3:15 (cf. 2 Sam 7:12).

The New Testament illustrated the fulfillment of the promise in the same Messianic perspective: Jesus is the Messiah, descendant of David (cf. Rom 1:3; 2 Tim 2:8), born of woman (cf. Gal 4:4), a new Adam-David (cf. 1 Cor 15), who must reign "until he has put all his enemies under his feet" (1 Cor 15:25). Finally Revelation 12:1-10 presents the final fulfillment of the prophecy of Genesis 3:15. While not being a clear and direct announcement of Jesus as Messiah of Israel, it leads to him, however, through the royal and Messianic tradition that unites the Old and the New Testament. [Read More]

On the Dignity of Women From the "beginning," woman--like man--was created and "placed" by God in this order of love. The sin of the first parents did not destroy this order, nor irreversibly cancel it out. This is proved by the words of the Proto-evangelium (cf. Gen 3:15). Our reflections have focused on the particular place occupied by the "woman" in this key text of revelation. It is also to be noted how the same Woman, who attains the position of a biblical "exemplar," also appears within the eschatological perspective of the world and of humanity given in the Book of Revelation.[60] She is "a woman clothed with the sun," with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of stars (cf. Rev 12:1). One can say she is a Woman of cosmic scale, on a scale with the whole work of creation.

At the same time she is "suffering the pangs and anguish of childbirth" (Rev 12:2) like Eve "the mother of all the living" (Gen 3:20). She also suffers because "before the woman who is about to give birth" (cf. Rev 12:4) there stands "the great dragon...that ancient serpent" (Rev 12:9), already known from the Proto-evangelium: the Evil One, the "father of lies" and of sin (cf. Jn 8:44). The "ancient serpent" wishes to devour "the child." While we see in this text an echo of the Infancy Narrative (cf. Mt 2:13, 16), we can also see that the struggle with evil and the Evil One marks the biblical exemplar of the "woman" from the beginning to the end of history. It is also a struggle for man, for his true good, for his salvation. Is not the Bible trying to tell us that it is precisely in the "woman"--Eve-Mary--that history witnesses a dramatic struggle for every human being, the struggle for his or her fundamental "yes" or "no" to God and God's eternal plan for humanity? [Read More]

Message of Mary's Maternal Love

But " the first heaven and the first earth " still exist about us and within us. We cannot ignore it. But this enables us to recognize what an immense grace was granted to us human beings when, in the midst of our pilgrimage, there shone forth on the horizon of the faith of our times this "great portent, a woman" (cf. Rev 12:1). [Read More] Mary is Church's Pattern; Mary is First to Receive Glory Thus Mary is resplendent as the "beginning and the pattern of the Church" (preface of the Assumption), already fulfilled in her person by virtue of Christ's paschal mystery, that saving destiny to which God calls every human creature from eternity. On their earthly pilgrimage, believers look to Mary, the "woman clothed with the sun" (Rev 12:1), as a bright star showing us the goal to strive for on our daily journey. [Read More]

1. "A woman clothed with the sun". [Read More] On today's feast of the Assumption, the Church applies to Mary these words from the Revelation of St. John. In a certain sense, they tell us the end of the story of the "woman clothed with the sun": they speak to us of Mary assumed into heaven. Therefore, the liturgy rightly links them to the early part of Mary's history: the mystery of the Visitation in the house of St. Elizabeth. We know that the Visitation took place shortly after the Annunciation, as we read in the Gospel of St. Luke: "In those days Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a city of Judah" (Lk 1:39). [Read More]

4. "Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple.... And a great portent appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars" (Rev 11:19; 12:1). [Read More]

Mary Shines As A Sign of Certain Hope

MARY SHINES AS A SIGN OF CERTAIN HOPE Pope John Paul II Angelus 14 August 1996 "Signum magnum apparuit in caelo...": "And a great sign appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars" (Rv 12: 1). [Read More]

Beatification of Francisco and Jacinta Marto According to the divine plan, "a woman clothed with the sun" (Rv 12: 1) came down from heaven to this earth to visit the privileged children of the Father. She speaks to them with a mother's voice and heart: she asks them to offer themselves as victims of reparation, saying that she was ready to lead them safely to God. And behold, they see a light shining from her maternal hands which penetrates them inwardly, so that they feel immersed in God just as-they explain-a person sees himself in a mirror. [Read More]

Mary's Enmity Towards Satan Was Absolute The 12th chapter of Revelation, which speaks of the "woman clothed with the sun" (12:1), is often cited too as biblical testimony on behalf of the Immaculate Conception. Current exegesis agrees in seeing in this woman the Community of God's People, giving birth in pain to the risen Messiah. Along with the collective interpretation, however, the text suggests an individual one in the statement: She brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron" (12:5). With this reference to child-birth, it is acknowledged that the woman clothed with the sun is in a certain sense identified with Mary, the woman who gave birth to the messiah. The woman-community is actually described with the features of the woman-Mother of Jesus. [Read More]

Ecclesia in Europa

CONCLUSION Entrustment to Mary 'A great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun' (Rev 12:1) [Read More]

The woman, clothed with the sun, in travail and ready to give birth (cf. Rev 12:1-2), can be seen as the Israel of the Prophets which gives birth to the Messiah 'who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron' (Rev 12:5; cf. Ps 2:9). But she is also the Church, the People of the New Covenant, subjected to persecution and yet protected by God. The dragon is 'the ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world' (Rev 12:9). The conflict is an uneven one: the dragon seems to prevail, so great is his arrogance before the defenceless and suffering woman. Yet in reality the triumph belongs to the son born of the woman. In this conflict one thing is certain: the great dragon has already been defeated; 'he was cast down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him' (Rev 12:9). He was defeated by Christ, God made man, through his death and resurrection, and by the martyrs 'through the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony' (Rev 12:11). And even when the dragon continues his opposition, there is no reason for fear, since his defeat has already taken place. [Read More] 123. This is the certainty which heartens the Church on her pilgrim way; in the story of the woman and the dragon she reads her own history ever anew. The woman who gives birth to her son also brings to mind the Virgin Mary, especially at that moment when, transfixed by suffering at the foot of the Cross, she begets her Son anew as the victor over the prince of this world. She is then entrusted to John who in turn is entrusted to her (cf. Jn 19:26-27), and thus she becomes the Mother of the Church. Thanks to the bond uniting Mary to the Church and the Church to Mary, the mystery of the woman becomes clearer: 'Mary, present in the Church as the Mother of the Redeemer, takes part, as a mother, in that 'monumental struggle against the powers of darkness,' which continues throughout human history. And by her ecclesial identification as the 'woman clothed with the sun' (Rev 12:1), it can be said that 'in the Most Holy Virgin the Church has already reached the perfection whereby she exists without spot or wrinkle' '.192 [Read More]

Boundary Between Original Innocence and Redemption 1) Already the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the Septuagint, which goes back to about the 2nd century B.C., interprets Genesis 3:15 in the Messianic sense, applying the masculine pronoun autos in reference to the Greek neuter noun sperma (semen in the Vulgate). The Judaic tradition continues this interpretation. Christian exegesis, beginning with St. Irenaeus (Adv. Haer. III, 23, 7), sees this text as "proto-gospel," which announces the victory won by Jesus Christ over Satan. In the last few centuries scripture scholars have interpreted this pericope differently, and some of them challenge the Messianic interpretation in recent times. However, there has been a return to it under a rather different aspect. The Yahwist author unites prehistory with the history of Israel, which reaches its peak in the Messianic dynasty of David, which will fulfill the promises of Genesis 3:15 (cf. 2 Sam 7:12). The New Testament illustrated the fulfillment of the promise in the same Messianic perspective: Jesus is the Messiah, descendant of David (cf. Rom 1:3; 2 Tim 2:8), born of woman (cf. Gal 4:4), a new Adam-David (cf. 1 Cor 15), who must reign "until he has put all his enemies under his feet" (1 Cor 15:25). Finally Revelation 12:1-10 presents the final fulfillment of the prophecy of Genesis 3:15. While not being a clear and direct announcement of Jesus as Messiah of Israel, it leads to him, however, through the royal and Messianic tradition that unites the Old and the New Testament. [Read More]

Homily and Other Words of the Holy Father, at Lourdes 2004 The faithful have understood this. That is why they throng to this grotto in order to hear the maternal counsels of the Blessed Virgin. In her they acknowledge "the woman clothed in the sun" (Rev 12:1), the Queen resplendent before the throne of God (cf. Responsorial Psalm), ever interceding on their behalf. [Read More]

Pope Benedict, offering white roses in his traditional yearly act of Marian veneration, gave listeners his insight into the connection between the Virgin Mary and the Church – portrayed in the Apocalypse through the single image of the sun-clad woman.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Marian worship is insidious in so many ways. I think one of the saddest things to see is people who seem to want to know the Lord running to idols that they bow down and pray to. This interpretation of Rev. 12 is just another example of how goddess worship twists the mind.

The answer to the identity of the woman in Rev 12 is answered in Rev. 12.

Rev. 12:6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred sixty days.

The woman is Israel that flees from the Antichrist indwelt by Satan at the mid point of the Tribulation.

Indeed it does, Mary also represents Israel, since Jesus’ “Jewishness” comes from His mother. From the Talmud, it has always been a Jewish practice that matrilineal descent was what guaranteed ones’ status as a member of the people of the covenant.

So, it can even be said that the woman in the Revelations scripture is Israel, but the mystery of the incarnation is that the abstracts are made concrete.

The great truth of the incarnation is that what was a foreshadowing, and anagogic sense of God’s interactions with His people is made real in a tangible way.

Jesus is the concrete way. He is the Truth. He is the life.

He says that He is the light of the world.

He is the tangible figure of the intangible and metaphysical.

Mary thus represents Israel in a concrete way, because from before time she was foreshadowed and prepared for in God’s plan to be the mother of God.

Mary is the mother of the tangible presence of God foreshadowed in scripture.

She is the virgin, who could not possibly bear a child since she had no husband. Lk 1:34.

Thus all the biblical figures of women who asked for the grace of God to bear a son, who was their inheritance, is a representation of the struggle of Israel, and the nativity of our lord.

Israel was eagerly awaiting a savior who would restore the fortunes of Jacob. Jer 30:18. And in Mt 1:23 ‘Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel” (which means, God with us).’

Which is from Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Emmanuel.”

The important fact to remember is that the incarnation is the most complete sign of God’s presence among us.

All of biblical history is caught up into the coming of Jesus, and His passion and death, and His resurrection.

Perhaps now you have a better understanding of how Proddys feel in the face of the Ashteroth-Mary-Goddess caricature posts from the RC side.

The RC’s routinely puke on God’s priorities and standards about idolatry and blasphemy.

Yet Proddys are expected to take it . . . lying down.

The vison of the woman clothed with the sun; and of the great dragon, her persecutor.

1 And there appeared a great sign in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his head seven diadems:

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth; and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered, that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne:

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that there they should feed her a thousand two hundred sixty days.

7 And there was a great battle in heaven: Michael and his Angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought, and his angels:

8 And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil, and Satan who seduceth the whole world, and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto death.

12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you that dwell therein. Wo to the earth, and to the sea, because the devil is come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time.

13 And after the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman, who brought forth the man child:

14 And there were given to the woman, two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the desert to her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth, after the woman, water, as it were a river: that he might cause her to be carried away by the river.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the river, which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

18 And he stood upon the sand of the sea.

Haydock Catholic Commentary

Apocalypse xii.

Notes & Commentary:

Ver. 1. A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet. By this woman, interpreters commonly understand the Church of Christ, shining with the light of faith, under the protection of the sun of justice, Jesus Christ. The moon, the Church, hath all changeable things of this world under her feet, the affections of the faithful being raised above them all. --- A woman: the Church of God. It may also, by allusion, be applied to our blessed Lady[the Virgin Mary].

The Church is clothed with the sun, that is, with Christ: she hath the moon, that is, the changeable things of the world, under her feet; and the twelve stars with which she is crowned, are the twelve apostles: she is in labour and pain, whilst she brings forth her children, and Christ in them, in the midst of afflictions and persecutions. (Challoner) --- Under the figure of a woman and of a dragon, are represented the various attempts of Satan to undermine the Church. --- On her head....twelve stars, her doctrine being delivered by the twelve apostles and their successors. (Witham)

Ver. 2. With child, &c., to signify that the Church, even in the time of persecutions, brought forth children to Christ. (Witham) --- It likewise signifies the difficulties which obstructed the first propagation of Christianity. (Pastorini)

Ver. 3. Another wonder in heaven; that is, in the Church of Christ, though revealed to St. John, in the visions, as if they were seen in heaven. --- A great red dragon; a fiery dragon, with seven heads and ten horns; i.e. many heads and many horns. By the dragon is generally understood the devil, (see ver. 7 and 9) and by the heads and horns, kings and princes, who act under him, persecuting the servants of God. (Witham) --- Dragon, &c. the devil; and by the seven heads and ten horns, are meant those princes and governors who persecute the Church of Christ. (Calmet)

Ver. 4. His tail drew the third part of the stars: a great part of mankind. This is spoken with an allusion to the fall of Lucifer from heaven, with the rebellious angels, driven from thence by St. Michael. (Witham) --- According to Pastorini, this passage refers to the angels whom Lucifer drew after him by sin to the earth. Menochius interprets it of those bishops and eminent persons who fell under the weight of persecution, and apostatized. --- And the dragon stood before the woman, &c. The devil is always ready, as far as God permits him, to make war against the Church and the faithful servants of God. The woman, the Church, brought a man child, or rather many men children, stout and valiant in the profession of the true faith, able to resist and triumph over the attempts of the persecutors in all nations, not of themselves, but by the grace and power of Jesus Christ, their protector, who is able to rule all nations as it were with a rod of iron, to frustrate all their attempts, and turn their hearts as he pleaseth. (Witham)

Ver. 5. A man child; that is, a masculine race of Christians, willing to confess the name of the Lord, and to fight his battles; who, through the merits of Jesus Christ, should triumph over all the attempts of the world. (Calmet) --- Her son (or children) was taken up to heaven, guarded by the special favour of God. They always overcome the devil, and all their adversaries, by reason of the blood of the Lamb, by the merits of Christ. And they loved not the life of the body, so as to preserve it, by incurring the death of the soul. (Witham)

Ver. 6. The woman fled into the wilderness. The Church, in the times of persecutions, must be content to serve God in a private manner; but by divine Providence, such persecutions never lasted with violence only for a short time, signified by 1260 days, or as the same is expressed here, (ver. 14) for a time, and times, and half a time, i.e. for a year, and two years, and half a year. (Witham) --- The Christians were accustomed to fly during the times of persecution into the deserts, to avoid the fury of the pagans. This was done by the greatest saints; and St. Jerome remarks, that it was this which gave rise to the eremitical state of life.

Ver. 10-12. Now is come salvation....rejoice, O ye heavens. The blessed in heaven rejoice for the victories of the faithful on earth, and also for the reward and glory which would shortly be given them in heaven. (Witham) --- Woe to the earth, &c. Both Pastorini and Calmet refer this woe to the persecution of Dioclesian. The dragon, the devil, is more irritated than ever against the Christians; he therefore stimulates the pagans to exercise their utmost cruelty against them, knowing that a Christian emperor (Constantine) would in a short time extend the reign of Jesus Christ over the whole world.

Ver. 14. There were given to the woman two wings of a great eagle. By these two wings, some understand the love of God, and the fear of offending him; others, piety, prudence, &c. (Witham) --- The Church, on account of the severe pressure of the persecution, obtained from the Almighty a special protection and assistance. (Pastorini)

Ver. 15. The serpent (the dragon, the devil) came out of his mouth, &c. He endeavoured to destroy the Christian religion; but the earth, that is, the princes of the earth, as God was pleased to turn their hearts, helped to turn away the persecutions. (Witham) --- As a last effort, the devil raises a more bloody persecution than was ever known before. See Eusebius, History of the Church.

Ver. 16. And the earth helped the woman. A prince of the earth, Constantine, came to the succour of the Church, and caused the persecution to cease.

Ver. 18. And he stood upon the sand of the sea;[1] i.e. the dragon seemed to be at a stand, to rest a while, not being able to raise any more persecutions. Now as to the time that these things should come to pass, many by seven heads and ten horns understand many powerful wicked kings, who should persecute the good, especially about antichrist's time, when the faithful at different times should be oppressed, and forced to fly as it were into the wilderness to worship God in private. And when the end of the world seems to draw near, the devil with greater malice will persecute God's servants, his time being short. Others apply these predictions to the particular persecutions in the Church by the Jews, and by the heathen emperors in the first three Christian ages[centuries] before Constantine's time, when idolatry was destroyed, when the face of the Church was changed, and when she became victorious, and publicly triumphed over her former enemies, the heathens; and by the man child, whom God took under his special protection, they will have to be understood Constantine himself. (Witham)

____________________ [1] Ver. 18. Et stetit super arenam maris. The ordinary Greek copies, estathen, steti, which the Protestant translators followed, beginning chapter xiii. with these words, and I stood upon the sand of the sea, as if St. John spoke of himself. But Dr. Wells, in his amendments, has corrected the Protestant translation, and restored the reading estathe, stetit, as we find it in the Latin Vulgate. I have reckoned near upon a hundred places in the Apocalypse only, wherein Dr. Wells has preferred those readings in the Greek manuscripts which are conformable to our Latin Vulgate.

Lack of comprehension of the significance of the incarnation is a lack of comprehension of who Christ is.

The incarnation of God is a fact that makes Mary extremely significant.

If Christ is made present to you in scripture, how much more is He made present to you through His mother?

Do you worship scripture? No.

Do Catholics worship Mary? No, absolutely not.

Does scripture reveal Jesus to mankind? Yes.

Does Mary reveal Jesus to mankind? Duh, in the most physical way possible for a human being to bring forth something new. By giving birth to Him. God takes reality from its most abstract, and condenses it to the most concrete of facts.

SOMETIMES

given the degree of hyperventilating of the rabid clique RC . . .

it seems the loving thing to do to comply and possibly spare the frothing fingered one a heart attack . . .

as well as spare FR outrageous amounts of RC dust in the air.

Of course, if all Proddys did that routinely, FR REALLY WOULD be an exclusive office of the Pope . . . evidently ran out of the Vatican.

Thank you so much, RnMomof7! I love this. It’s so beautiful!

I have to agree with Mrs Don-o. Thank you. ;)

The Meaning of Honor

Kabad (“Honor”)

1. The Hebrew word translated with our English word “honor” carries a wide variety of meanings. It is a complex word, one not easily understood without some thought.

2. The Hebrew dictionary says it means “to be heavy, be weighty, be grievous, be hard, be rich, be honourable, be glorious, be burdensome, be honored.”

a. The concept is of something or someone who cannot easily be dismissed. Like a huge boulder in the road, it is something we must make allowance for; Like a heavy weight, it is pressing upon our thoughts; Like something glorious, we have a sense of awe or reverence for the person or thing.

b. Honor is, therefore, the exact opposite of thoughtlessness and neglect. It conveys a sense of enormous importance to the thing to which it is given. It was an expression of value and worth.

The Hebrew Concept

1. The Hebrews had a highly developed code of honor. This was due to the teaching of Scripture. And the Scriptures nowhere bestowed greater importance on human relationships than on the duty of children to their parents. Listen to a few of these verses:

a. Leviticus 19:3 ‘Every one of you shall revere his mother and his father, and keep My Sabbaths: I am the LORD your God’

b. Deuteronomy 27:16 ‘Cursed is the one who treats his father or his mother with contempt.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’

c. Proverbs 1:8 My son, hear the instruction of your father, And do not forsake the law of your mother;

d. Proverbs 20:20 Whoever curses his father or his mother, His lamp will be put out in deep darkness.

e. Proverbs 30:17 The eye that mocks his father, And scorns obedience to his mother, The ravens of the valley will pick it out, And the young eagles will eat it.

2. This attitude was infused into the New Testament, as well, God putting it there to instruct us of our duty to our parents and grandparents. Here are but a few examples:

a. 1 Timothy 5:4 But if any widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show piety at home and to repay their parents; for this is good and acceptable before God.

b. Matthew 15:4 “For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’”

c. Ephesians 6:2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

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Christ has to honor His mother for all eternity as St John sees Christ as the Slain Lamb in Eternity. Which means he is still in his humanity Because he was wounded for us as a human.

Revelation 5;6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders.

Jesus has to honor for all time his mother. If he is sinless( He did not break a commandment) which we know he is in eternity. Also how does he feel about any one who dis- honors His Mother.

Matthew 15:3-7Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’[a] and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[b] 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

So as a GodMan he has to honor his mother. Which would be even more special than a mere man honoring his mother.

HEAVENLY QUEEN

Definition

In heaven, Christ the King has exalted His Mother as Queen.

How This Teaching Exalts Christ

It upholds His Kingship, since Mary could not possibly be Queen were her Son not the King of Kings. It also affirms that His Kingship is truly from the Davidic line, as we will see below.

Biblical Basis

In the Davidic monarchy, the queen-mother, or gevirah (”lady”; feminine form of gevir, “lord”) played a very important role. King Solomon instituted this position when he enthroned his mother, Bathsheba, at his right hand (I Kings 2:19), and all his successors followed his example with their own mothers. This was the kings’ way of fulfilling the Commandment to honor their mothers (Exodus 20:12)

Each time the Bible records a king of Judah, it mentions his mother (see I Kings 14:21; II Kings 14:2; 21:19; 23:36; 2 Ch 22:2) because she was the gevirah, and so had a special place in his court. The prophet Jeremiah sends a warning to both the king and his mother (Jer 13:18), and the Babylonians took both King Jeconiah and his mother away into captivity (2 Kings 24:15; Jer 29:2).

Jesus is the final Son of David, the rightful heir to King David’s throne. He has exalted the Davidic dynasty into heaven itself, thus making it a truly everlasting kingdom (Ps 89:35-37). And, like His earthly forefathers, He has enthroned His Mother, Mary, at His right hand as the Gevirah of the Kingdom of heaven.

Early Christian Witness

Coming soon.

Objections

Queen of Heaven is a title of the goddess Ishtar; so when Catholics call Mary Queen of Heaven they are really praying to Ishtar.
By this line of reasoning we could prove that Evangelicals pray to Satan when they call Jesus “the Morning Star”, because “morning star” is the literal meaning of the Hebrew word usually translated “Lucifer” in Isaiah 14:12. Identical titles do not indicate identity of persons; were this so, King Nebuchadnezzar would be Jesus, since both are called “king of kings” (Daniel 4:24; Revelation 19:16).

We must also consider the intention of Catholics. When we call Mary the Queen of Heaven we do not intend to invoke Ishtar, therefore we do not invoke Ishtar! God knows our hearts.

There is no Queen of Heaven; Jesus doesn’t have a queen; He reigns alone as King!
That’s not what the Bible says. In Psalm 45, which is a prophesy of Messiah’s reign, verse 9 reads, “At thy right hand doth stand the queen in gold of Ophir” (ASV). The queen is then addressed directly; sho is clearly present at the ceremony. So Scripture indicates that the Messiah will have a queen by His side.

Then the queen spoken of in Psalm 45 is His Bride, the Church; not Mary.
But in verse 18 the queen is told, “I will make your name memorable through all generations”. Where in the Bible have we heard this before? In Luke 1:48, where the Holy Spirit causes Mary to prophesy, “From now on all generations will call me blessed”. Mary is the Queen who will be remembered and called blessed by all generations! She is the one of whom this psalm prophetically speaks.

Now, Mother Church is the Bride of the King of kings, so she could perhaps be considered a “queen” as well. But that would not change the fact that Mary is the Queen-Mother of the Kingdom of Heaven. There can be both a queen and a queen-mother (the present monarchy in the United Kingdom exemplifies this).

The Bible does not call Mary a “Queen”.
The Bible tells us that the mother of each king in David’s line received the honor of being Gevirah. Mary is the Mother of the ultimate Son of David, Jesus the heavenly Messiah-King; thus she is the Heavenly Gevirah. Besides, the Bible states that Christ has made all Christians to be kings (Revelations 1:6; 5:10). Since Mary is a Christian woman, it is not at all improper to call her a Queen (feminine equivalent of “king”).

The Bible never says that Mary reigns in heaven with Christ.
The Bible says that if we suffer for Jesus’ sake we will reign with Him (2 Timothy 2:12). As she watched her dear Son dying, Mary surely suffered a great deal (John 19:25), so its perfectly biblical to believe she reigns with Him now in heaven.

You believe that Mary was crowned Queen of Heaven. How do you know she wears a crown?
The Bible depicts the righteous in heaven as wearing golden crowns (Rev 4:4). Is it so hard to believe, then, that Mary also wears a crown?

The gevirah was an Old Testament office; Jesus is King of kings in the new dispensation.
The Bible never says that Jesus abolished the office of the gevirah. After all, He did not come to abolish the “Law and the Prophets” (the Old Testament), but to fulfill it (Mt 5:17). He did not abolish the Davidic dynasty, but came as the final Son of David who will reign forever. Even so, He did not abolish the office of the gebirah, but set up His Mother as the final Gebirah in heaven.

Didn’t the kings of Judah copy this “queen-mother” tradition from the pagan Babylonians?
There is no evidence of that in Scripture. King Solomon established this tradition at the beginning of his reign while he was still faithful to the God of Israel, long before he turned toward idols (1 Kings 11:1-3). None of the prophets ever condemn this tradition, although they condemn many practices borrowed from the surrounding nations (Ezekiel 8:3; Zephaniah 1:8).

Yet this tradition is consistent with God’s command “Honor you father and mother” (Ex 20:12). The king was obliged to keep all the commandments as an example to the people (Dt 17:18-20). This included the one on honoring one’s parents. He could not honor his father, who was dead, so he honored his mother by enthroning her next to him and giving her a share in his reign. There is nothing inherently “pagan” in this practice, and it is in line with God’s righteous commandments.

Even if this office were copied from pagan dynasties, so what? The Bible tells us that the idea of a Israel having a king was itself copied from the surrounding nations (Deuteronomy 17:14; I Samuel 8:5, 20)! God did not seem too pleased with that idea at first (I Sa. 8:6-8), but He later promised that the Messiah would spring from King David’s line. If God agreed to this pagan-inspired idea and even made it part of His messianic plan, couldn’t He agree to the office of the queen-mother (if it were pagan in origin - which is debatable)? Since God never condemns the existence of the gevirah, He must have found it agreeable.

But there were evil queen-mothers such as Maacha (I Kings 15:13); and Athalia (2 Kings 11:1-16)?
There were also righteous queen-mothers, like the one whose advice is recorded in Proverbs 31. The existence of evil queen-mothers do not negate the validity of the office any more than evil kings like Manassah negated the validity of David’s line. Yet they do reveal (in a negative fashion, of course) the authority and influence which the gevirah had in the kingdom of Judah.

But Jesus did not have to continue this tradition.
He did not have to abolish it either. Yet He had good reason to continue it. Since Jesus was born under the Law (Gal 4:4), He was bound to honor His Mother. Since He is the Son of David it was fitting that He honor her as His forefathers honored their mothers. Since he is God, He is able to honor her more than could an ordinary king of Judah, by making her the Queen-Mother of the Kingdom of Heaven itself. This is exactly what He did!

The Bible does not say that Jesus made Mary his gebirah.
It also does not deny that He did so. Yet certain passages insinuate that he did. Take, for instance, Elizabeth’s statement “And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” (Lk 1:43). Elizabeth knew that Mary was bearing the Messiah, the long-awaited Son of David; and that this would make Mary the queen mother. She is amazed and humbled not only by the presence of the preborn Christ under her roof, but by the fact that the mother of her Lord - the Messiah’s Gebirah! - should come to help her in her last months of pregnancy. The title “mother of my Lord” may also be an acknowledgment that Mary is the queen-mother.

So this passage strongly indicates that there is something special about Jesus’ Mother; that as the Mother of the Messiah-King she is destined for an exalted role in the kingdom of heaven.

If the gevirah co-ruled with the king, then you’re saying that Mary is equal to Jesus?
No, for the gevirah was not equal to the king. She sat at his right hand in a place of honor (I Ki. 2:19), acted as his royal counselor (Pr. 31:1-9) and sometimes spoke to the king on behalf of others. But he was still the king; he had the last say and could ignore his mother’s advice or deny her requests (I Kings 2:20-23). (Now since Mary only prays according to God’s will, Jesus does not deny her requests (I Jn 5:14-15). Yet He is still supreme, and she subordinate to Him.)

I can’t believe that Jesus would pay such honor to Mary.
Why can’t you believe it? Not based on the Bible, which never denies that Jesus paid such honor to Mary. Perhaps you just don’t want to believe it, in which case it is some personal prejudice against Mary and/or Catholicism which dictates that belief, not the word of God.

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