Did the Pope (John Paul II) REALLY kiss the Koran?

Dangus -- Vanity

[dangus]

I pray I haven't been guilty of the sin of calumny against a pope! In several Free Republic threads over the years I took as an accepted fact that the Pope kissed the Koran, and in several, commented that the Pope had erred on the side of peacemaking, by making this unscripted gesture of respect. I was surprised by finding some denials of this event.

Those who believe the Pope kissed the Koran apparently include the man who was the Patriarch of the Chaldean (Iraqi Catholic) Church at the time, Raphael Bidawid: "I renewed our invitation to the Pope because his visit would be for us a grace from heaven. It would confirm the faith of Christians and prove the Pope’s love for the whole of humanity in a country which is mainly Muslim. At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book the Koran presented to him by the delegation and he kissed it as a sign of respect.

Finding that quote, originally from a reputably Catholic source, seemed to clinch the issue for me. But then I noticed something: All of the other pictures of the Koran that I found are very plainly labelled, usually in Arabic, "Koran."

All the images of the pope kissing the Koran are stills from the same image, which is in pretty poor resolution. It is clear, however, that the stylish imprint on the book, while reminiscent of the Koran, is not actually the Arabic script that appears on the Koran.

The next thing that struck me is that as I examined the "Koran" that the Pope kissed is that it looked like a binder. Sure, it's a green book with fancy caligraphy embossed on the cover, but who puts the Koran in a binder?

Sure, you THINK you see the pope kiss the Koran, but I bet you also THINK you see him do so in front of the Muslim who gave it to him. Nope. The man in the picture is a Christian. Which brings up the next question: If it was the Koran, did the Pope know this? It's common Arab protocol to kiss a gift one has received, and the Pope could easily have been simply following protocol respectfully, and not recognizing that the gift was, if it was, a Koran. Has anyone ever read anything which confirms that he Pope knowingly kissed the Koran?

[BigSkyFreeper]

But lets ignore the Arab man standing to his right.

[dangus]

There are tens of millions of Arab Catholics out there, in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, and dispersed throughout the West. That man is supposedly part of a delegation from the Chaldean (Iraqi Catholic) church.

[reaganaut]

I have a parallel Koran as well. My Arabic sucks badly. My Hebrew is pretty good, but I never really took Arabic, just toyed with it when I was trying to get into a dig in Egypt.

Do they make large print Korans? (sorry font size brought this question to mind)

[dangus]

Correction: the delegation included Iraqi bankers and other Muslims, in addition to the Chaldeans.

[presently no screen name]

That would make it the 51st anniversary of Israel becoming a state.

[BigSkyFreeper]

Also the 51st anniversary of the Arab-Israeli War.

[Kirkwood]

I suspect it is an arabic edition Bible. Examples are here:
http://www.biblesinaction.com/shop/index.php?cPath=25

[7MMmag]

That man is supposedly part of a delegation from the Chaldean (Iraqi Catholic) church.

Yes, according to this source; http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A055rcKoran.htm
which gave the source from which they obtained it ---> http://www.catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=10415

"the Chaldean Catholic Patriarch of Babylon"

"Patriarch Raphael I Bidawid is the spiritual leader of about 600,000 Catholics of the Chaldean rite, most of them living in Iraq. There are also about 200,000 Latin-rite Catholics in Iraq, along with 200,000 non-Catholic Christians."

What follows is an interview. Here's the portion which has the Patriarch Raphael purportedly saying,

"It is known that Pope John Paul II has often voiced a desire to make a pilgrimage in the footsteps of Abraham, the common father of Jews, Christians, and Muslims. For the Pope, Abraham is a figure who helps the unity of believers to overcome political divisions. On May 14th I was received by the Pope, together with a delegation composed of the Shi'ite imam of Khadum mosque and the Sunni president of the council of administration of the Iraqi Islamic Bank. There was also a representative of the Iraqi ministry of religion. I renewed our invitation to the Pope, because his visit would be for us a grace from heaven. It would confirm the faith of Christians and prove the Pope's love for the whole of humanity in a country which is mainly Muslim.

At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book, the Qu'ran, presented to him by the delegation, and he kissed it as a sign of respect. The photo of that gesture has been shown repeatedly on Iraqi television and it demonstrates that the Pope is not only aware of the suffering of the Iraqi people, he has also great respect for Islam.

A papal visit would be welcomed by both the people and by the authorities. After the audience I immediately sent a recommendation to the Iraqi government to make the official step of inviting the Pope to Iraq.

[bolding for emphasis, selection of excerpts, mine]

Now dangus, who was it that broke you off a ration for mentioning the "kiss"? You manned up and posted a thread, a hey-I could have been wrong thread. I was glad to see it, for I had hought, after seeing someone come along and give authoritative sounding correction concerning the alleged Koran kiss, that it "wasn't the Koran" but some other, Christian work, that the whole affair may have been misconstrued.

Since the info above came from CatholicCulture.Org, it could well be accurate?

Are we missing something? Was the .Org in error, and the book in question really some other book?

Could you refer me to the post in which you were told that it was some other? I'd like to ping them to this, if they are not among those whom have posted here on this thread already.

[count-your-change]

Actually it wasn’t even a kiss. The Pope is saying,

“Even without my glasses I can see it says, “Presented to this establishment by the Gideons” “.

[Jonty30]

You could very well be correct.

[7MMmag]

That's hilarious. Thanks.

And it's a good time for a bit of humor. This whole kiss thing, when it first made the news, had a lot of folks hyperventilating. Here on FR, too.

[7MMmag]

You could very well be correct.

I'm was just quoting from, and linking to what appeared to me to be an acceptable source, which was claiming to have a transcript from an interview with one of the participants --- the very one who gave the book to that pope.

[Bobsvainbabblings]

Hope this clears up any confusion about whether it is a Koran and /or is he kissing it.

Father Joe

From silly to sacred, a priest speaks …

 

 

Pope John Paul II Kisses the Koran

Many have wondered, why did the Pope kiss the Koran?

Is it not a book that speaks directly against the Catholic faith? Does it not reduce the Son of God to a mere prophet? Did not the popes of the past demand its burning? The answer to all these questions is YES, and yet what the Holy Father did was more complicated than what the anti-Catholic and/or sedevacantist spin-doctors might say about it.

One critic argues that it was a blasphemous act, showing his “hatred” of God and his apostate defection from the true faith. It was none of these things. The Pope is on the record about the differences between Catholics and the followers of Islam. Let us look at the situation. The Pope has longed to go to Iraq in order to walk in the footsteps of Abraham, claimed as a father in faith by Muslims, Jews, and Christians. Pope John Paul II has seen first hand the debth of man’s inhumanity to his brothers and sisters. Our history as a world is written in blood. As illustrated in his many Mea Culpas, he strives for a new understanding between peoples where dialogue, tolerance, and cooperation will replace anathemas, persecution, and rivalry. Abraham is an integral figure of unity in turning things around politically. Looking at the incident in question, the Holy Father received a delegation that included the Shiite Imam of Khadum Mosque, the Sunni President of the council that operates the Iraqi Islamic Bank, and a member of the Iraqi Ministry of Religion. The invitation of a papal visit was renewed. They even went so far as to say that it would be “a grace from heaven”. While Iraq has been guilty of real violations of human rights, this Islamic state has been the most tolerant of Christians than any of its islamic neighbors. Many Catholics hold positions in government, commerce, education, etc. The Chaldean Patriarch of Babylon (Iraq), His Beatitude Raphael I Bidawid, who was a major spokesman for the delegation. He applauded the Pope’s actions and words as a true sign of concern from the Successor of St. Peter. (Christians represent 5% of the 20 million people in Iraq. Catholics of the large Chaldean rite [implementing the Aramaic language] and of the smaller Latin rite represent 80% of all Christians there.) It was said that a papal visit would confirm the faith of Christian believers while showing forth a genuine love for all in this mostly Muslim nation.

The Koran was a gift to him from the delegation. Islamic peoples are not casual in the giving of gifts. It represents the giver. They knew perfectly well that the Pope was a Catholic Christian, but they gave to him that which was regarded as most important in their life, their own holy book. Thus, at the end of the audience, the Pope showed his deep appreciation to this intimate self-donation, by bowing and kissing the Koran as a sign of respect. Such a gesture ran totally against the grain of crusades and condemnations. It did not mean that the Pope accepted all that was in the book, only that his love for the Muslim people, and the Iraqis in particular, was genuine. He makes the first move, not in the capitulation of our faith, but in the recognition that the followers of Jesus and those who cherish Mohammed should not be engaged in name-calling, or worse, killing each other. The Pope appreciated the suffering of the Iraqi people, particularly the women and children. It showed he did not look down upon them but had a genuine respect for them within the brotherhood of man.

 

Hmm, I wonder did he give them a Bible or a book of the wriings and traditions of the Church of the Magisterium in exchange?

My God lead us all to His truths, BVB

[mas cerveza por favor]

According to Catholic World News, JP2 did kiss the Koran:

“At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book, the Qu’ran, presented to him by the delegation, and he kissed it as a sign of respect. The photo of that gesture has been shown repeatedly on Iraqi television and it demonstrates that the Pope is not only aware of the suffering of the Iraqi people, he has also great respect for Islam.”

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=10415

This is one of the many reasons I am glad that the JP2 cause for sainthood seems to have hit a snag.

[7MMmag]

Hit a snag? These folks over here, at The Remnant
have a case of the hangnail over the idea.

details here;

A Statement of Reservations Concerning the Impending Beatification of Pope John Paul II

[Carpe Cerevisi]

Some interpretations of prophecy indicate that Catholicism and Islam will unite to take over the world, so I can’t ignor the possibility the pope might have done this.

That may be the dumbest thing I've ever read on FR.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“Some interpretations of prophecy indicate that Catholicism and Islam will unite to take over the world, so I can’t ignor the possibility the pope might have done this.”

No LEGITIMATE or VALID interpretation of prophecy indicates that Catholicism and Islam will unite to take over the world. NONE.

[Jonty30]

Be patient, my dear.

Legitimate or valid, by whose standard?

If we are really in the last days, you are going to see acts and wonders you never conceived as possibilities.

[Cvengr]

First I had heard of this.

What particular prophecy is so interpreted and advocated by whom?