FAIR changes Mormon defenders website name

"Sandy no one can condemn you to hell. People go there of their own free will."

Jesus: Hello Saundra, welcome to the judgement seat.

Saundra: Where is Joseph Smith ?

Jesus: He is not here, you can be with him if you want. He was a false prophet you know.

Saundra: I DON'T BELIEVE IT, YOU'RE QUOTE MINING ! YOU'RE JUST AN ANTI-MORMON ! I WANT TO GO TO JOSEPH.

Jesus: As you wish.

Saundra, BlueMoose, please wake up, you're in a DAZE....THINK ! The Christ that Joseph Smith and his line have taught you is not the Christ of the Bible, any more than Harry Reid is going to save the Constitution !

False ‘prophets” passin the buck...

Hey who needs accuracy when you have confusion and incompetence...

"...Paragon Defender" who is a very fine person who got banned from this site because he/she is a Mormon."

No one has ever been banned from Free Republic for being a Mormon.

Paragon Defender repeated the word "Nazi" when referring to someone else's post and that was a good enough excuse to get him/her banned.

It was Paragon Defender that first used the term Nazi on that thread, referring to FR members.

He/she was repeating his/her own word.

Yeah, I know, I am a glutton for the ignorance of others and their lame attempts at obfuscation. It entertains me...

Placemarkerith - and it came to pass...

THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI

HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 16

The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.

1 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.

2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ^ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the ^bguilty taketh the ^ctruth to be hard, for it ^dcutteth them to the very center.

3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might ^awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.

4 And it came to pass I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.

5 And it came to pass that they did ^ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.

6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the ^avalley which he called Lemuel.

7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the ^adaughters of Ishmael to ^bwife; and also, my brethren took of the ^cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also ^dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.

8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the ^acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.

9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ^ajourney into the wilderness.

10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round ^aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one ^bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.

11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take ^aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.

12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.

13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place ^aShazer.

14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the ^aRed Sea.

15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, ^aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.

16 And we did follow the ^adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.

17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.

18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine ^asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.

19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.

20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did ^amurmur against the Lord.

21 Now it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their ^asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.

22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto ^acomplaining against the Lord their God.

23 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did ^amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my ^bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?

24 And it came to pass that he did ^ainquire of the Lord, for they had ^bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.

25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly ^achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.

26 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.

27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were ^awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.

28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the ^afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.

29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us ^aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by ^bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.

30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the ^adirections which were given upon the ball.

31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild ^abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.

32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained ^afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.

33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.

34 And it came to pass that ^aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called ^bNahom.

35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did ^amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their ^bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did ^cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.

36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to ^areturn again to Jerusalem.

37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us ^aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our ^bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.

38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that ^aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman ^bstir up their hearts to ^canger.

39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did ^achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.

As the saying goes...You know you are in a cult when....

We will provide you with links, suggestions on how to educate yourself on issues, and recommendations on input that might prove helpful. You can then go online and, in your own words, help shape the positive image we all have of the Church and gospel we hold dear.

Ironic name if there ever was one...

Not when you consider the source...

"The heart of a wise man is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left."

I put up NAZI quotes from time to time; but it's to illustrate common (conman?) methodologies.

It entertains me... and EDUCATES the World!

FAIR SPAM now mormonvoices - strange when SLC/lds have official sites, why go to sites that say they are not affiliated with and their opinions may not match with official doctrine. Really why not just go to the source, rather than spinning sites.
place marker

"It is a well known fact that FR has become a place where anti Mormons have found a comfortable place in the sun."

Yes, simply because FR is a place for truth. Truth is what is welcomed at FR, not spin and definitely not lies.

PM

...... we have a few outspoken anti-LDS posters?...

A few? Hahahhahahahaahah...that's rich! Me laddy, what we gots here are world class, nothing less...

There you go again, condemning me and my friends to hell. It is so unbecoming of you.

ALL: Of all of Saundra's posting tactics, this is one of her most common. She will mention in some fashion how a poster is condemning her and other Mormons to hell.

In the interest of not always having to come up with an entirely fresh response for every single Saundra Duffy accusation, allow me to repeat for a second time how I responded an earlier time to this:

Sandy, you were a YWAMer long enough, I’d assume, to read those verses just beyond John 3:16, right?

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son…36Whoever believes in the Son HAS eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." (John 3:17-18, 36)

Did you see that phrase ”stands condemned already” in John 3:18?

[At this point, I was told how the “wrath of God” is a rather severe punishment and should reserved for His judgment - NOT YOURS!]

At which I asserted: Now tell me you’re different from the other Mormons I’ve encountered – the ones I’ve talked with who assume nobody except some rare apostates are under condemnation. Go, ahead, tell me you’re different than they are. Don’t you understand that according to John 3:18, people who don’t believe in the ”one and ONLY Son” (which excludes those who believe that Jesus is one “elder brother Son among MANY”) ”stand condemned already?” And, of course, that condemnation includes God’s existing wrath remaining on him/her.

(If you don’t like what Jesus said in John 3:18,36 take it up with Jesus!)

No matter what, Sandy, God’s wrath and condemnation is unleashed upon the sin of us all. Either
(a) Jesus’ stint on the cross absorbs it on our behalf; or
(b) For those who want to work their way to high degrees of glory, or slouch their away along – doesn’t matter – the sin will remain in their own lap. What a sorry thought that is has it goes through my mind.

[To which I was told: There you go again . . . condemning people to damnation and hell…]

As I said above, I just cited John 3:36. How would that be any different than a Mormon citing Mosiah 2:38-39; 3:19 or Alma 42:16 from the Book of Mormon?

“For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord…” Mosiah 3:19 -- which, BTW, was supposedly written in B.C. 124 … how convenient for such explicit words such as the Greek word, Christ, and the word Tyndale made up late in the 13th century – “atonement” to show up on a gold plate in B.C. 124 before there was a tremendous amount of discussion about “enticings of the Holy Spirit,” “saints,” and “atonement” and “Christ the Lord.”

“Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, and the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever. And now I say unto you, that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment.” (Mosiah 2:38-39)

”Now, repentance could not come unto men except there were a punishment, which also was eternal as the life of the soul should be…” (Alma 42:16, Book of Mormon)

“…the fall had brought upon all mankind a spiritual death as well as a temporal, that is, they were cut off from the presence of the Lord…” (Alma 42:9, Book of Mormon)

“For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord…” Mosiah 3:19

Cont'd next post...

There you go again, condemning me and my friends to hell. It is so unbecoming of you.

May I suggest to you, ALL, a way you can respond to Sandy -- or any Mormon -- each and every time she/they mention[s] something along these lines?

Let's say you are talking with a Mormon and she/he says:

JOE MORMON: "Why do you condemn me to hell?"

N. CHRISTIAN: "You believe in three degrees of glory, do you not?"

JOE MORMON: "You know I do."

N. CHRISTIAN: "And don't you therefore believe, that Jesus can reside in two of these three glories?"

JOE MORMON: "You know I do."

N. CHRISTIAN: "And how many of these glories does Heavenly Father reside in?"

JOE MORMON: "One. The celestial one."

N. CHRISTIAN: "Do Christians get to reside there?"

JOE MORMON. "No. Only members of the church of the Firstborn do."

N. CHRISTIAN: "And Christian churches. Do Mormon leaders regard them as part of the 'church of the firstborn?'"

JOE MORMON: "Uh, no. 'Fraid not. But, you'll still be saved. Just a different degree of glory."

N. CHRISTIAN: "And so you're telling me that 'salvation' in your eyes includes NEVER being reconciled to Heavenly Father? NEVER, EVER able to live in His Presence again = 'salvation'...equals 'heaven' to you??? REALLY???"

JOE MORMON (now looking for a place to hide, in a stumble-mumble): "Uh...Uh...Uh..."

N. CHRISTIAN: "Let me go 'on the record' here to make myself 'perfectly clear': Whatever you regard as part of the afterlife that excludes the Presence of Heavenly Father, you can take that Mormon ghettoized false-gospel of yours and you can shove it to hell where it belongs! If you consider a Heavenly Fatherless 'heaven' to be 'heaven,' I don't want it! If you consider a Heavenly Fatherless 'heaven' to be FUTURE ETERNAL 'salvation,' then that ain't it!"

N. CHRISTIAN (continuing): "You, Joe Mormon! You of all people! One who believes that EACH of us was spirit-born to Heavenly Father in the pre-existence. And who desires for us to be reconciled to Him. You, who puts such emphasis on the divine family! You actually deem it to be a 'family reunion' when the 'family reunion' excludes the ULTIMATE PATRIARCH of the Family! Wow! How offensive can your false gospel get???!!!"

If I wanted to - which I don’t - but if I really wanted to hurt some group of people - I could dig up ancient history about every single religious sect ever known to man or beast - and go out of my way to make a mockery of the whole thing. But I do not want to hurt anyone.

Saundra, why bother? You already pay 10% of your income to have it all done for you! And missionary families also chip in extra so that you don't have to!

It's all delegated on your behalf!

Mormon leaders are in such a quanderous head-spin!
On the one hand, their "scriptures" say THEY are the...
"only true living church on the face of the earth" (D&C 1:30)
& that the rest of the churches are under Satan's umbrella (1 Nephi 14:9-10)
& that those churches should not be joined 'cause they are "ALL wrong" (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith - History, vv. 18-19)
& they are "ALL wrong" cause 100% of their creeds are an "abomination" to their God (ibid)
& that their professors are "ALL corrupt" heart-drifters who lack power...(ibid)
...but then on the other hand, "Christian" is sure a nice brand image to covet these days, so some want to "play nice" & just call the rest of us...
..."other" Christians.

Over & over again, for 180 years.
Daily accusations that Christians are "apostates."
Daily accusations that ALL our professing believers are "corrupt" -- and that we're heart drifters.
Daily accusations that ALL our creeds are an "abomination" to God.

When, oh, when, Saundra will the Mormon church relent over this unprecedented slander of the worldwide Christian church?

52,000 missionaries accusing us of "apostasy"
E-accusations of this at lds.org
Curricula–based slander
Magazine-based slander
Book-based slander, published by Deseret, Inc., owned by the church

Joseph Smith's original vision, captured in the same Pearl of Great Price I've referenced a “few” times through the years, in vv. 18-21, references Christian sects...
...published and republished in DOZENS if not HUNDREDS of distinct languages...
...as not worth joining...
...as being untrue (Smith said this specifically about Presbyterianism)...
...as having 100% of our creeds as an "abomination" to the Mormon god..."abomination" means putrid...
...as having 100% of our professing believers as Christians described as "corrupt"...
...as being heart-drifters.

Imagine the mission field. Perhaps a Christian missionary and his family have worked 50 years there. Then a person they've been trying to reach for 50 years picks up the Mormon "scripture" -- the Pearl of Great Price. And they read most of the above about the Mormon worldview of who Christians are.

Will that engender "good will" in the heart of people to view Christian missionaries and Christian neighbors favorably? Really?

Is this your "good will," Saundra? Full of Christmas cheer as you make out your December tithing check to make sure all of this slander continues?

What more Mormon machinery do you need Saundra to export such slanderous machinations???

Just goes to show you what 10% of your income can accomplish!

If I wanted to - which I don’t - but if I really wanted to hurt some group of people - I could dig up ancient history about every single religious sect ever known to man or beast - and go out of my way to make a mockery of the whole thing. But I do not want to hurt anyone.

Sandy...and ALL: A 'word picture' if you will.

Let's say you're 19.
Let's say your fiance was a member of another church in another town.
And say, once a month she would arrive at your home and you'd both proceed to head off to a pre-marital counseling program started by your local bishop.

And let's say that every time your fiance would talk to your family members, she would accumulatively find out what this bishop really thought of her...in fact, she pieced together various comments that your bishop thought she was...
...a "blasphemer..."
...an "apostate..."
..."corrupt..."
..."of Anti-Christ..."
...and her most cherished beliefs were an "abomination"...
...Oh sure, these "comments" weren't usually directed to her one-on-one in her face...
...but accumulatively, from talking with your family members, they would document that these were the exact terms he used...
...and these were just the most common...there were other terms, a few worse...
...and then when she directly confronted the bishop if these things were true, he didn't deny any of them.

Now do you honestly think for a moment, that a Mormon bridegroom's argument to his "bride"...
...when he persistently failed to defend her before the bishop or before his family members...
...an argument that for every one of these critiques the bishop said of her...
...he happened to say 1,000 things positive about other subjects that nothing that have to do with her...
...is going to give him "brownie points" in her eyes?

Wouldn't that actually make things worse? I mean, if you, Saundra, were right in this instance -- that your bishop doesn't spend the rest of his time "hurting" others -- well, doesn't that mean this Mormon's bride-to-be has been singled out for the harshest treatment that your bishop would dish out upon others?

The "bride to be" in this account is the "Bride of Christ," His church.
The accusations of your leaders are hurled at the bride of Christ.
And you -- and other Mormons -- defend the bishop in this account, and NOT the honor of the Bride.
Tell us, Saundra, what kind of a bridegroom does that make Mormons? (Especially in her eyes?)

Saundra, when oh when are you going to tell your collective representative "bishop" of your church to stop slandering the Bride of Christ?
When are you going to stop paying your general authorities to stop slandering the Bride of Christ?