Posted on 11/28/2011 4:12:34 PM PST by Saundra Duffy
"The Mormon Defense League" is out. "MormonVoices" is in.
That change became official Monday, when the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research announced a name change for its website aimed at defending the teachings and practices of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
FAIR is a non-profit organization that, according to a press release, is operated by "self-motivated Mormons who seek to improve the public understanding about the church" through conferences, workshops and scholarly articles posted on the organization's websites. While it is dedicated to "providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, beliefs and practices" of the LDS Church, it is not owned, controlled by or affiliated with the church.
(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...
Jesus: Hello Saundra, welcome to the judgement seat.
Saundra: Where is Joseph Smith ?
Jesus: He is not here, you can be with him if you want. He was a false prophet you know.
Saundra: I DON'T BELIEVE IT, YOU'RE QUOTE MINING ! YOU'RE JUST AN ANTI-MORMON ! I WANT TO GO TO JOSEPH.
Jesus: As you wish.
Saundra, BlueMoose, please wake up, you're in a DAZE....THINK ! The Christ that Joseph Smith and his line have taught you is not the Christ of the Bible, any more than Harry Reid is going to save the Constitution !
Hey who needs accuracy when you have confusion and incompetence...
No one has ever been banned from Free Republic for being a Mormon.
Paragon Defender repeated the word "Nazi" when referring to someone else's post and that was a good enough excuse to get him/her banned.
It was Paragon Defender that first used the term Nazi on that thread, referring to FR members.
He/she was repeating his/her own word.
We will provide you with links, suggestions on how to educate yourself on issues, and recommendations on input that might prove helpful. You can then go online and, in your own words, help shape the positive image we all have of the Church and gospel we hold dear.
Not when you consider the source...
"The heart of a wise man is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left."
FAIR SPAM now mormonvoices - strange when SLC/lds have official sites, why go to sites that say they are not affiliated with and their opinions may not match with official doctrine. Really why not just go to the source, rather than spinning sites.
place marker
Yes, simply because FR is a place for truth. Truth is what is welcomed at FR, not spin and definitely not lies.
PM
A few? Hahahhahahahaahah...that's rich! Me laddy, what we gots here are world class, nothing less...
ALL: Of all of Saundra's posting tactics, this is one of her most common. She will mention in some fashion how a poster is condemning her and other Mormons to hell.
In the interest of not always having to come up with an entirely fresh response for every single Saundra Duffy accusation, allow me to repeat for a second time how I responded an earlier time to this:
Sandy, you were a YWAMer long enough, Id assume, to read those verses just beyond John 3:16, right?
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son 36Whoever believes in the Son HAS eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." (John 3:17-18, 36)
Did you see that phrase stands condemned already in John 3:18?
[At this point, I was told how the wrath of God is a rather severe punishment and should reserved for His judgment - NOT YOURS!]
At which I asserted: Now tell me youre different from the other Mormons Ive encountered the ones Ive talked with who assume nobody except some rare apostates are under condemnation. Go, ahead, tell me youre different than they are. Dont you understand that according to John 3:18, people who dont believe in the one and ONLY Son (which excludes those who believe that Jesus is one elder brother Son among MANY) stand condemned already? And, of course, that condemnation includes Gods existing wrath remaining on him/her.
(If you dont like what Jesus said in John 3:18,36 take it up with Jesus!)
No matter what, Sandy, Gods wrath and condemnation is unleashed upon the sin of us all. Either
(a) Jesus stint on the cross absorbs it on our behalf; or
(b) For those who want to work their way to high degrees of glory, or slouch their away along doesnt matter the sin will remain in their own lap. What a sorry thought that is has it goes through my mind.
[To which I was told: There you go again . . . condemning people to damnation and hell ]
As I said above, I just cited John 3:36. How would that be any different than a Mormon citing Mosiah 2:38-39; 3:19 or Alma 42:16 from the Book of Mormon?
For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord Mosiah 3:19 -- which, BTW, was supposedly written in B.C. 124 how convenient for such explicit words such as the Greek word, Christ, and the word Tyndale made up late in the 13th century atonement to show up on a gold plate in B.C. 124 before there was a tremendous amount of discussion about enticings of the Holy Spirit, saints, and atonement and Christ the Lord.
Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, and the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever. And now I say unto you, that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment. (Mosiah 2:38-39)
Now, repentance could not come unto men except there were a punishment, which also was eternal as the life of the soul should be (Alma 42:16, Book of Mormon)
the fall had brought upon all mankind a spiritual death as well as a temporal, that is, they were cut off from the presence of the Lord (Alma 42:9, Book of Mormon)
For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord Mosiah 3:19
Cont'd next post...
May I suggest to you, ALL, a way you can respond to Sandy -- or any Mormon -- each and every time she/they mention[s] something along these lines?
Let's say you are talking with a Mormon and she/he says:
JOE MORMON: "Why do you condemn me to hell?"
N. CHRISTIAN: "You believe in three degrees of glory, do you not?"
JOE MORMON: "You know I do."
N. CHRISTIAN: "And don't you therefore believe, that Jesus can reside in two of these three glories?"
JOE MORMON: "You know I do."
N. CHRISTIAN: "And how many of these glories does Heavenly Father reside in?"
JOE MORMON: "One. The celestial one."
N. CHRISTIAN: "Do Christians get to reside there?"
JOE MORMON. "No. Only members of the church of the Firstborn do."
N. CHRISTIAN: "And Christian churches. Do Mormon leaders regard them as part of the 'church of the firstborn?'"
JOE MORMON: "Uh, no. 'Fraid not. But, you'll still be saved. Just a different degree of glory."
N. CHRISTIAN: "And so you're telling me that 'salvation' in your eyes includes NEVER being reconciled to Heavenly Father? NEVER, EVER able to live in His Presence again = 'salvation'...equals 'heaven' to you??? REALLY???"
JOE MORMON (now looking for a place to hide, in a stumble-mumble): "Uh...Uh...Uh..."
N. CHRISTIAN: "Let me go 'on the record' here to make myself 'perfectly clear': Whatever you regard as part of the afterlife that excludes the Presence of Heavenly Father, you can take that Mormon ghettoized false-gospel of yours and you can shove it to hell where it belongs! If you consider a Heavenly Fatherless 'heaven' to be 'heaven,' I don't want it! If you consider a Heavenly Fatherless 'heaven' to be FUTURE ETERNAL 'salvation,' then that ain't it!"
N. CHRISTIAN (continuing): "You, Joe Mormon! You of all people! One who believes that EACH of us was spirit-born to Heavenly Father in the pre-existence. And who desires for us to be reconciled to Him. You, who puts such emphasis on the divine family! You actually deem it to be a 'family reunion' when the 'family reunion' excludes the ULTIMATE PATRIARCH of the Family! Wow! How offensive can your false gospel get???!!!"
Saundra, why bother? You already pay 10% of your income to have it all done for you! And missionary families also chip in extra so that you don't have to!
It's all delegated on your behalf!
Mormon leaders are in such a quanderous head-spin!
On the one hand, their "scriptures" say THEY are the...
"only true living church on the face of the earth" (D&C 1:30)
& that the rest of the churches are under Satan's umbrella (1 Nephi 14:9-10)
& that those churches should not be joined 'cause they are "ALL wrong" (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith - History, vv. 18-19)
& they are "ALL wrong" cause 100% of their creeds are an "abomination" to their God (ibid)
& that their professors are "ALL corrupt" heart-drifters who lack power...(ibid)
...but then on the other hand, "Christian" is sure a nice brand image to covet these days, so some want to "play nice" & just call the rest of us...
..."other" Christians.
Over & over again, for 180 years.
Daily accusations that Christians are "apostates."
Daily accusations that ALL our professing believers are "corrupt" -- and that we're heart drifters.
Daily accusations that ALL our creeds are an "abomination" to God.
When, oh, when, Saundra will the Mormon church relent over this unprecedented slander of the worldwide Christian church?
52,000 missionaries accusing us of "apostasy"
E-accusations of this at lds.org
Curriculabased slander
Magazine-based slander
Book-based slander, published by Deseret, Inc., owned by the church
Joseph Smith's original vision, captured in the same Pearl of Great Price I've referenced a few times through the years, in vv. 18-21, references Christian sects...
...published and republished in DOZENS if not HUNDREDS of distinct languages...
...as not worth joining...
...as being untrue (Smith said this specifically about Presbyterianism)...
...as having 100% of our creeds as an "abomination" to the Mormon god..."abomination" means putrid...
...as having 100% of our professing believers as Christians described as "corrupt"...
...as being heart-drifters.
Imagine the mission field. Perhaps a Christian missionary and his family have worked 50 years there. Then a person they've been trying to reach for 50 years picks up the Mormon "scripture" -- the Pearl of Great Price. And they read most of the above about the Mormon worldview of who Christians are.
Will that engender "good will" in the heart of people to view Christian missionaries and Christian neighbors favorably? Really?
Is this your "good will," Saundra? Full of Christmas cheer as you make out your December tithing check to make sure all of this slander continues?
What more Mormon machinery do you need Saundra to export such slanderous machinations???
Just goes to show you what 10% of your income can accomplish!
Sandy...and ALL: A 'word picture' if you will.
Let's say you're 19.
Let's say your fiance was a member of another church in another town.
And say, once a month she would arrive at your home and you'd both proceed to head off to a pre-marital counseling program started by your local bishop.
And let's say that every time your fiance would talk to your family members, she would accumulatively find out what this bishop really thought of her...in fact, she pieced together various comments that your bishop thought she was...
...a "blasphemer..."
...an "apostate..."
..."corrupt..."
..."of Anti-Christ..."
...and her most cherished beliefs were an "abomination"...
...Oh sure, these "comments" weren't usually directed to her one-on-one in her face...
...but accumulatively, from talking with your family members, they would document that these were the exact terms he used...
...and these were just the most common...there were other terms, a few worse...
...and then when she directly confronted the bishop if these things were true, he didn't deny any of them.
Now do you honestly think for a moment, that a Mormon bridegroom's argument to his "bride"...
...when he persistently failed to defend her before the bishop or before his family members...
...an argument that for every one of these critiques the bishop said of her...
...he happened to say 1,000 things positive about other subjects that nothing that have to do with her...
...is going to give him "brownie points" in her eyes?
Wouldn't that actually make things worse? I mean, if you, Saundra, were right in this instance -- that your bishop doesn't spend the rest of his time "hurting" others -- well, doesn't that mean this Mormon's bride-to-be has been singled out for the harshest treatment that your bishop would dish out upon others?
The "bride to be" in this account is the "Bride of Christ," His church.
The accusations of your leaders are hurled at the bride of Christ.
And you -- and other Mormons -- defend the bishop in this account, and NOT the honor of the Bride.
Tell us, Saundra, what kind of a bridegroom does that make Mormons? (Especially in her eyes?)
Saundra, when oh when are you going to tell your collective representative "bishop" of your church to stop slandering the Bride of Christ?
When are you going to stop paying your general authorities to stop slandering the Bride of Christ?
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