Posted on 11/26/2011 3:33:54 PM PST by Iggles Phan
My problem with the 'Rapture' (pre-millenial; pre-tribulation) teaching is that it forces its adherents to actually REVERSE the Person of Jesus Christ to the Devil.
That's correct.
In the 'Rapture' (or Dispensational) scheme the believer is asked to take the Person of Daniel's 70th Week (Who is Jesus Christ at the Cross) described in Chapter 9, verse 27a:
"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, ..."
... and reverse this 'he' to mean a 'future Antichrist'.
Are you confused?
Is this Jesus Christ or Antichrist?
1. The Historic View.
This view is typified by the 1599 Geneva Bible notes. These are the notes of John Calvin, Miles Coverdale, and John Knox to name a few.
1599 Geneva Bible Notes on Daniel 9:27a:
"By the preaching of the gospel he confirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles. Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection."
It's pretty clear that the Reformers believed that Christ was the Person of Daniel's Great 70th Week.
2. The Modernist View (Dispensational).
In contrast however, compare this historic view to the Dispensational view typified in the Ryrie Study Notes (1978). Look who the modernists assign to this very same Person in Daniel 9:27a:
"The prince of verse 26, the Antichrist previously introduced in 7:8, 24-26, who will make a pact with many (of the Jewish people) at the beginning of the tribulation period. But in the middle of the week (i.e., 3 1/2 years later) Antichrist will break his covenant and desecrate the Temple by demanding worship of himself in it."
The difference couldn't be farther apart.
Historic Christianity says that Jesus fulfilled the 70th week AT THE CROSS, but Rapture Christianity (Dispensationalism) says that the Devil fulfills it in a 're-built' temple.
Therefore, Dispensationalism is no less than a frontal assault on the Cross of Christ. It reverses Jesus Christ to the Devil. It is malicious and a pernicious doctrine.
Remember, this Dispensational view was NEVER known until 1830. That's why it is a Modernist view. It was invented by JN Darby and popularized by CI Scofield, two con-men to Christianity.
In the 20th century, carpetbaggers such as Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Jack (and Rexella) Van Impe, John Hagee and others have made fame and fortune off of this con game. They have marketed this 'Rapture' theology like a cheap box of laundry detergent on TV and radio, and with videos and books.
My hope and prayer is that the Church starts to wake up out of its slumber and starts challenging its pastors, ministries, and teachers. The Cross of Christ is at stake here!
For the Glory of Christ Jesus. Amen.
Prepare for the dismissal.
I would never deny the Bible. In fact on my Kindle I have the DR translation. It’s lovely. I often read it before daily Mass.
I would also never deny Christ. He is, after all, the second person of the Most Holy Trinity. He is God.
In fact I became Catholic because of Christ (I am so much closer to Him now) and because of the Holy Spirit who hit me upside the head and showed me true worship. LOL
;-0)
You would know nothing about any ‘Pre-Trib Rapture’ if it were not for Darby, and then Schofield’s ‘popularizing the teaching.
You seem to be a self-appointed ‘ex-spurt’ on these matters. Hope your salvation does not depend on your espoused beliefs.
For me, when/if doesn’t matter...I am prepared to meet my Lord and Saviour under any and all possibilities. Hope you are too. There are many ‘Christian’s’ who are so expectant of being yanked out of here, that if they find themselves in serious tribulatory times and they are still here having to face it won’t be prepared. At that point, the LeHay/Jenkins/Giovanna’s of the world may have to face judgement from the Lord Himself for false teaching, for causing ‘these My little ones to stumble’...there are millstones waiting...
So 1 Thessalonians 4 was written in the 1800s?
You seem to be a self-appointed ‘ex-spurt’ on these matters. Hope your salvation does not depend on your espoused beliefs.
LOL - I have a feeling that your denial of Scripture will have a profound effect on your salvation. I can validate every single thing I believe with Scripture. So far, you haven't even attempted to do the same. Probably because you can't.
For me, when/if doesn’t matter...I am prepared to meet my Lord and Saviour under any and all possibilities. Hope you are too. There are many ‘Christian’s’ who are so expectant of being yanked out of here, that if they find themselves in serious tribulatory times and they are still here having to face it won’t be prepared. At that point, the LeHay/Jenkins/Giovanna’s of the world may have to face judgement from the Lord Himself for false teaching, for causing ‘these My little ones to stumble’...there are millstones waiting...
Blah, blah, blah. Provide some Scripture to validate your claims or step aside while the serious discussion on the Biblical, God-given doctrine of the Rapture continues.
I still don’t believe in your Rapture theory. Just so you know. LOL
I do not find it in scripture.
There are numerous Rapture Scriptures posted in both posts 153 and 500.
You are given the free will by God to reject those Scriptures, but understand that there are consequences to that rejection.
i truly do not believe that i will go to hell because I do not believe in a man-made theory about the end times.
“Until and unless God breaks the covenant with Abraham, that covenant according to the flesh is still in effect.”
Answer:
God already fulfilled the Abrahamic covenant at the Cross. End of story.
a) Before the Cross. … Jeremiah 31: 31:
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:”
b) During the 70th Week, in the very midst of the week, Jesus Himself confirms that same Covenant, … Matthew 26: 28:
“For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
c) After its fulfillment, the epistle writer reiterates the confirmation of this Covenant, … Hebrews 9: 15:
“And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.”
Are you saying this fulfillment of God’s Covenant is not sufficient?
Should have added:
If Jesus himself said that no one knows but the Father, who am I to say I do know? Or who is anybody else?
What is your evidence for this?
Please give me your proof texts for the Rapture.
Thanks
“Blah, blah, blah....”
Yes, you have been posting a lot of Blah, Blah, Blah...You quote a lot, but your ‘interpretation’ of God’s Word misses the mark.
“...your denial of Scripture...”
I have not denied any of what God’s Word says...your ‘applications/interpretations’ are not God’s Word...they are your word(s). Be careful who you ‘damn to Hell...you have been quick to do that with several throughout this thread.
“Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
(1 Thessalonians 4:17)
My question to you...where do you expect that to be? We gonna hang out with him ‘in the clouds’?
So apparently, Jesus believes that those in Him would know not the exact time of His return, but based on the signs that He gave for the Tribulation coming to pass, which are happening now, we would know that His return for His Church is very near.
And, Jesus also commands us to watch for His return. So it is possible to know when the Rapture, which is a signless event, is very close to occurring.
See posts 153 and 500. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is the Scripture that describes the Rapture in the most direct way, but posts 153 and 500 give even more Scripture that speaks about the Rapture.
We will go no further until you prove that Scripture supports your position. I have given more than enough proof of the Biblical doctrine of the Rapture. You choose to deny those proofs and now it is on you to prove your beliefs with Scripture.
Produce the Scripture.
I love this:
Psalm 132:8
8 Arise, O Lord, into thy resting place: thou and the ark, which thou hast sanctified.
Sorry I am not going back and trying to read other posts without a link.
Douay-Rheims Bible
3 And we will not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning them that are asleep, that you be not sorrowful, even as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died, and rose again; even so them who have slept through Jesus, will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you in the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them who have slept. 16 For the Lord himself shall come down from heaven with commandment, and with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are in Christ, shall rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air, and so shall we be always with the Lord. 18 Wherefore, comfort ye one another with these words.
I will ask again, where is the Rapture here? As you define it?
Your ‘proof’...you mean your interpretation. You have not produced anything from God’s Word that proves you ‘position’. And btw, where is ‘Rapture’ used in God’s Word?
Sorry I am not going back and trying to read other posts without a link.
Well, I'm not going to re-post something I already posted and gave you the numbers for, and as for the Scripture, I gave the Scripture references that speak about the Rapture. If you still think that they don't pertain to the Rapture, that is up to you to prove.
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