My Faith: Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN), from Catholic to Muslim

CNN ^ | 9/1/11 | Chris Welch

[D-fendr]

I believe your references here are to God, not the ark.

[D-fendr]

God allowed the mother of Christ to be kidnapped touched and kept by heathens .... how respectful.. .

Your typology of ark/Christ would make your criticism here even worse, so there's an inconsistency in your argument in this post.

[metmom]

The only requirement for Mary in Scripture was that she be a virgin until after she gave birth. The prophecy in Isaiah was that a virgin will conceive and bear a son.

It happened. Prophecy fulfilled.

[smvoice]

We know that Mary knew she needed a Savior. She herself acknowledged this when she prayed, "My soul exalts the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior" Luke 1:46,47.

The fact that Mary DIED is proof enough that she was subject to the FULL penalty of sin. Rom. 6:23, Gen. 2:17, 3:19.

Which leads to the next point. If the Virgin Mary had an inherited sin nature (which she most certainly did), she could not bring forth a pure offspring.

"The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of THE HIGHEST, shall overshadow thee; therefore also that 'Holy Thing' which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." Luke 1:35.

I think this is pretty clear that the embryo that was deposited in the womb of the Virgin Mary by the Holy Ghost contained no taint of sin, and that Mary's womb was SIMPLY THE VEHICLE FOR THE FORMATION OF THE HUMAN BODY OF CHRIST. Into which the "Spirit of Christ" entered AT BIRTH and THUS WAS FORMED THE GOD-MAN.

[metmom]

Since the sin nature comes through the father, that is the case.

But if someone believes that sin comes through the woman, then there’s problems.

My question is, if Jesus Himself could not inhabit a sinful womb because He was pure and sinless, then how could Mary inhabit a sinful womb (her mother’s) and be immaculately conceived and remain pure and sinless? For Mary to be pure wouldn’t her mother then have needed to be pure and sinless?

And if God could do this for Mary, that is-having her conceived without sin in the normal sinful human body of her mother’s, then why couldn’t He have done it for Jesus with Mary being the normal sinful human being?

Whatever Catholics claim God did for Mary to preserve her free from the stain of sin from her mother, He could have done for Jesus to preserve Him from the stain of sin from Mary.

[CynicalBear]

“To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord” Paul 2 Cor. 5

[CynicalBear]

>>Some folks think of me as a different part...<<

But an important part it is!

[RnMomof7]

They may like to deny it but the RC itself admits Mary sinned when they say that "only Jesus could keep the law perfectly"

They love to quote james so much ..

James 2:10 And whosoever shall keep the whole law, but offend in one point, is become guilty of all.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

That is the problem of doctrine with no sure foundational truth.. After a while their doctrine starts to contradict itself

[CynicalBear]

>>Every time all-y’all post about what a sinner she was, your implication is that God chose a sinner to bear His Son. Do you think that?<<

That would certainly be what I believe. That’s exactly what made Him fully man and still fully God.

[smvoice]

It’s always just a matter of time and Scripture before the floor beneath them begins to shift and gives way. A person can only cart around so much extra-Biblical “stuff” before the strain becomes too much on the cart wheels.

[smvoice]

"just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned." Rom. 5:12.

Did she die? Then she sinned. The penalty for sin is death.

[CynicalBear]

>>I love how they dismiss Ezekiel 44.<<

So you are saying that after Ezekiel in chapter 38-39 describes how the Jewish people will be re gathered into Israel and Gog and Magog will be drawn by God to attack Israel in a battle that God Himself defeats Israel’s enemies. Then goes through chapters 40, 41,42, and 43 describing the New Temple He changes in chapter 44 and begins to reference Mary even though He’s still describing the Temple? Then in verse 4 again describes the Temple but also in verse 5 talks about marking well those going in and going out?

5 And the LORD said unto me, Son of man, mark well, and behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears all that I say unto thee concerning all the ordinances of the house of the LORD, and all the laws thereof; and mark well the entering in of the house, with every going forth of the sanctuary.

Are you kidding me? If you think verse 1-3 are talking about Mary it looks like there were many going in and going out for them to be able to “mark well” the number of them. If verse 1-3 is talking about Mary there were a lot going in and going out.

[Mad Dawg]

GOD (the father) was INCARNATE in Jesus:

Whoa! In Nicene type thinking it was the Son who was incarnate.

[Mad Dawg]

GOD (the father) was INCARNATE in Jesus:

Whoa! In Nicene type thinking it was the Son who was incarnate. You have my attention. Would you say the Father suffered?

[Mad Dawg]

They may like to deny it but the RC itself admits Mary sinned when they say that "only Jesus could keep the law perfectly"

Did I not respond to this? Did anyone offer a refutation of my response?

[Iscool]

Every time all-y’all post about what a sinner she was, your implication is that God chose a sinner to bear His Son. Do you think that? An ordinary little sinful Jewish girl, who was used and then discarded once she had served her Grand Purpose, who went on to be a normal old lady sinner, who died and may or may not have gone to heaven. An ordinary girl who would be APPALLED to find out that Catholics “hyperdulia” her, who cannot hear prayers, answer them, or speak to her Son anymore since she is dead.

Right???

That pretty much sums up what the scriptures tell us except the scriptures didn't add your words or suggest that God used Mary and discarded her...

I see no reason for the soul of Mary not to be in heaven...Bible doesn't tell us either way, does it...

[Mad Dawg]

Since the sin nature comes through the father, that is the case. I've heard this before and never understood it. Are you saying the "sin nature" is genetic or that there is some biological aspect to it? No gotchas, not yet. I want to understand the opinion.

[Iscool]

You yourself say you ask metmom to pray for you, and then say you don’t mean it?

And people complain about how WE use language?

Now for some facts. When I ask a saint in heaven to pray for me,I also address petitions on the same matter to God. So what, exactly, is the difference as regards intercession?

I didn't realize I was communicating so poorly...Metmon didn't seem to have a problem understanding what I said...

The dictionary term for intercessor is to act as a mediator...I don't need a mediator...I don't ask any one to be an intercessor for me (except for the Holy Spirit) since no one has that ability and I don't need it anyway......I do not accept as biblical (or true) that any saint or Saint is an intercessor for anyone...

I of course love for other Christians to pray TO GOD for me but never as a mediator between me and Jesus (God)...There is no such thing...

[Elsie]

You left out the FIRST of the verse:

2 Cor. 5:8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

[Elsie]

2 Cor. 5:10

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.