” Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
Faith is given to us.”
Ummm...that is not what it says. No one can trust a promise they have not heard, so faith DOES require hearing (or some revelation by God to us). But that does NOT say that saving faith is given to us as a gift, and is not a response to God’s initiative.
Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen.
Jhn 20:8 Then the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went in, and he saw and believed;
Jhn 20:31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Act 14:1 Now at Iconium they entered together into the Jewish synagogue and spoke in such a way that a great number of both Jews and Greeks believed.
2Ti 3:15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Jhn 6:40 “For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
Act 4:4 But many of those who had heard the word believed, and the number of the men came to about five thousand.
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
Rom 4:24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord,
Belief is a response we make (or not) to God’s revelation, and that response is called faith. But it is not compelled, for it is based on something. It doesn’t sneak up and overwhelm us irrationally, but comes as a response to some stimuli: hearing, seeing, reading, etc.
“Certainly if you can “choose” to follow Christ then you can “choose” not to follow Him at some point in future.”
On eternal security, I’m agnostic, as was Arminius. However, when I see passages like the ones below, I’m puzzled how to explain them AND firmly believe in eternal security. If anyone has ideas, please feel free to share.
“4For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.” - Heb 6
“20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.” - 2 Peter 2
” 26For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” - Heb 10
“19Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.” - Romans 11
Also, on a purely personal note: Got home from church today to find my Border Collie with his nose grossly swollen. Took him to a 24/7 emergency vet place, and he was bitten by a rattlesnake on the nose. He was the 6th dog brought in today for that. While his prognosis is good, he is getting antivenom & morphine for the pain and will remain overnight for observation. If any are willing to offer a prayer for a hopelessly loyal Border Collie, please say a quick one for Jack. Thanks.
Romans 10:17 clearly states that saving faith comes from hearing the word of God. You're taking the position that this saving faith does not come from God. Then please explain where it comes from.
A prayer for Jack: that he may recover quickly and never go near a snake again.
My hound dog was bitten. I had to carry her home, and I’m old. :)
I kept her inside to heal. The first day I let her out again, just for a bit before I went looking and - yep, she bitten the second time.
I asked the vet: “do dogs normally do this, don’t they learn?” He said, “you’d think they would, but.. “ Watch out for Jack a little extra for a while after he heals.
It was very hard on her - and me - my sympathies to you both.
how’s Jack doing today?