Posted on 07/14/2011 2:54:04 PM PDT by Colofornian
There are 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those that understand binary numbers and those who don't.
Only if needed.
Close: but no cigar.
The Mountain Meadows is located in a mountain valley about 35 miles southwest of Cedar City, Utah.
(Images courtesy of LDS.org)
Strangely, it is one of the FACTS about MORMONism that in it's HASTE to ignore or bury the 'problem' of MMM; there is not a lot of whitewash spin put on it by the church and most searches about it turn up more truth than fiction!
HIGHLY unusual in all things MORMON.
NO!!
You HAVE to be kidding; RIGHT???
In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet, for our salvation depends on them.
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say Thus Saith the Lord, to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by mens reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidencythe highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidencythe living prophet and the First Presidencyfollow them and be blessedreject them and suffer.
I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captainhow close do our lives harmonize with the Lords anointedthe living ProphetPresident of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.
Ezra Taft Benson
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)
Thanks!
Undoubtably, two birds with one stone.
All hysterics aside, according to this article, the Mormon's shot the men and the Native American's they convinced to help them, murdered the women and children.
http://mountainmeadowsmassacre.com/
On September 11, 1857, John D. Lee entered the wagon circle with a white flag, convincing the emigrants to surrender peacefully. Required to put down their guns, the women and children were escorted out first, then the men and boys. Each man and boy was escorted by an armed militiaman.
They walked about a mile when, upon a predetermined signal, the militiamen turned and fired on each man and boy. Indians who had been convinced to participate in the massacre came out from their hiding places to attack the women and children.
From the same article: Not saying it’s right, just trying to keep the hysterics from clouding the facts.
Why would Mormons kill innocent emigrants?
Since the founding of their church in 1830, Mormons had been heavily persecuted and attacked. They had been chased from New York to Ohio to Missouri to Illinois and then finally to Utah. In Missouri, at Haun’s Mill, 18 Mormons had been massacred and 13 injured. The governor of Missouri had even issued an extermination order against the Mormons, forcing them to leave Missouri or be killed.
The church’s founder, the prophet Joseph Smith, had been tarred and weathered, falsely accused and imprisoned several times, and ultimately killed alongside his brother.
In 1857 the federal government sent 1,500 United States troops to Utah to deal with what it thought was a rogue sect. Tensions were high in Utah in 1857.
Because of all the past persecution and fear of being attacked or imprisoned by federal troops, it’s likely that local Mormons who participated in the Mountain Meadows Massacre acted out of a deep fear and paranoia.
Did persecution against the Mormons justify the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
While the Mormons were heavily persecuted, driven from their homes, and killed en masse several times, their persecution did not justify the killings at Mountain Meadows.
http://www.mollfoto.com/ruralbyways/MountainMeadows/MountianMeadowsMassacre.htm
Another really interesting article
Stop defending a massacre of women and children, already.
An attempt at deflection with nonsense trivia just underscores the fact that this atrocity by mormons actually and factually happened and has been sourced and linked on this thread to historical documents.
One should take a look at how this defense of murder most foul of innocents defines one's character.
Actually one of the articles did say the US sent 1500 troops after the Mormon's which they considered a "rogue faction" or something.
No, it wasn't quite as "clean" of a division as that.
"...sisters Rebecca, six, and Louisa, four...had all seen the slaughter of their seven brothers and sisters, as well as both parents, and Rebecca had pried her baby sister from the arms of their dead mother. Rebecca and Louisa had also watched as the Mormon killers, disguised as Indians, washed off their war paint in one of the meadow streams. They would eventually be among the first witnesses to report this occurrence, thereby attributing the murders to white men rather than Paiutes." (p. Sally Denton, American Massacre, p. 140 Vintage Books 2003)
Now that's not to say there weren't Paiutes involved. They were. But many of them left the scene after the initial first-day siege -- as the wagon train held out for several days. And, reportedly, some Paiutes were indeed present during the 9/11 massacre and did less -- if any of the shooting on that day.
The shooting victims indeed could all -- on the 9/11 portion of the massacre -- be attributed to the Mormons.
Yet many accounts (like the one below) say one one yo was killed by the same bullet that killed the father (the baby was in the father's arms)...plus "One-year-old Sarah Dunlap was shot in the elbow..." (Sally Denton, American Massacre, p. 137)
You can see that there was other female victims from the Mormons here:
The following is an except from the book THE INDIAN WARS OF THE FAR WEST BY J. P.' DUNN, JE., M.S., LL.B. Published by HARPER & BROTHERS, 1886 (pages 297 - 301):
It is just after noon , and the day is bright and clear. Tramp, tramp, tramp ; they march down from the camping place. The men have reached the militia, and give them three hearty cheers as they take their places, murderer and victim, side by side. Tramp, tramp, tramp. They are rounding the point of the ridge which has served as a screen for the Mormons and Indians for the past week. A raven flies over them, croaking. What called him there ? The wagons have just passed out of sight over the divide. The men are entering a little ravine. The women are opposite the Indians. They have regained confidence, and several are expressing their joy at escaping from their savage foes. See that man on the divide! It is Higbee. He makes a motion with his arms and shouts something which those nearest him understand to be: "Do your duty." In an instant the militiamen wheel, and each shoots the man nearest him; the Indians spring from their ambush and rush upon the women; from between the wagons the rifle of John D. Lee cracks, and a wounded woman in the forward wagon falls off the seat.
Swiftly the work of death goes on. Lee is assisted in shooting and braining the wounded by the teamsters Knight and McMurdy, and as the latter raises his rifle to his shoulder he cries; " O Lord, my God, receive their spirits, it is for thy kingdom that I do this." The men all fell at the first fire but two or three, and these the horsemen ride down, knock over with their clubbed guns, and finish with their knives. Their throats are cut, that the atoning blood may flow freely. The women and older children are not hurried out of the world quite so quickly as the others. Some are on their knees begging for life.
Others run shrieking over the Meadows. Swiftly the work of death goes on. Lee is assisted in shooting and braining the wounded by the teamsters Knight and McMurdy, and as the latter raises his rifle to his shoulder he cries; "O Lord, my God, receive their spirits, it is for thy kingdom that I do this." The men all fell at the first fire but two or three, and these the horsemen ride down, knock over with their clubbed guns, and finish with their knives. Their throats are cut, that the atoning blood may flow freely. The women and older children are not hurried out of the world quite so quickly as the others. Some are on their knees begging for life. Others run shrieking over the Meadows. They receive but two answersthe tomahawk crashing through the skull, and the knife plunging through the heart. These are all left to the Indians, for fear there may be "innocent blood " among them, which no Mormon may shed. There is alarm on this account already, for one of the emigrants had carried his infant child in his arms, and the bullet that pierced the father's heart went through the babe's brain. It is decided, however, that it was accidental and that no criminal wrong is done. Several of the Mormons run to the Indians, to see that they do their work properly. Among them is Lee. It is discovered that two of the girls are missing. Some one saw them run to a ravine fifty yards away. Lee and one of the Cedar City chiefs run to the place and find there the Indian boy, Albert, who lives with Hamlin. He says the girls came there, and shows where they hid in the brush. They drag them forth and brutally ravish them. This was the only act on that field that was not inspired. Was it wrong, under the Mormon code of morality? The question is too subtle for me to answer; certainly it was not punished. Lee next tells the chief the girls must be killed. The chief answers: " No, they are too pretty to kill; let us save them;" but he meets a grim refusal. The unhappy child that Lee holds, with the terror of death upon her, flings her arms round his neck and promises to love him as long as he lives, if he will spare her life. The wolf has keener fangs but no more merciless heart. He throws her head back with his arm, and with one stroke of his keen bowie-knife severs her neck to the spine. The chief brains the other with his tomahawk.
Secondary source: Frank Kirkman's Mountain Meadow Massacre Site
Oh...and did you catch this line: "Several of the Mormons run to the Indians, to see that they do their work properly."
So, do you mean to tell me that if you're overseeing a massacre, and you run to see that it's being done properly, that somehow you're less culpable.
Really. Your attempt at a "neat compartmentilization" of this massacre reveals a disturbed mind.
Besides Liberty Jail, when was Joseph Smith "falsely accused and imprisoned several times?" He was jailed in 1844 for ordering the destruction of a printing press. That wasn't a false accusation, nor false imprisonment.
In Missouri, at Hauns Mill, 18 Mormons had been massacred and 13 injured. The governor of Missouri had even issued an extermination order against the Mormons, forcing them to leave Missouri or be killed.
You make for a horrible one-sided historian.
Sorry, but 'twas a bit more complexity of why people acted as they did. Even the Lds Church History; Selections from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism adds three more reasons:
(a) Sidney Rigdon's June 19, 1838 "Salt Sermon" reinforced local Mormon opposition;
(b) Lds militia officer Sampson Avard initiated a vigilante group known as the Danites
(c) Rigdon's July 4, 1838 "inflammatory" sermon was the independence of the church from mobocracy. Rigdon "warned of a war of extermination between Mormons and their enemies if they were further threatened or harassed." (Leland H. Gentry, Church History, p. 343). Lds writer Max Parkin conceded that Rigdon's June 19 and July 4 messages "further incensed the public against expanding LDS influences." (Church History, p. 348).
Certainly, what we almost NEVER hear from contemporary Mormon posters is that apparently the first group to threaten the other with "extermination" in Missouri wasn't Gov. Boggs. 'Twas Lds leader Sidney Rigdon four months prior to that!
Mormons still love to play up a history of persecution myths:
(1): See, for example, the first entry at: Setting the record straight on the 'Hawn's' Mill Massacre In article, it explains how the Mormons love to cite Jacob Haun (real name was spelled Jacob Hawn with a "w"), who was the owner of the Hawn's Mill. But Jacob Hawn was never a Mormon...(In that article, a historian discusses why Jacob and Harriet Hawn were never Mormons. "I like many other historians mainly assumed they were Mormons." But among other proofs, Baugh explained that they arrived earlier to Caldwell County before the Mormons, and no family records report that they were Mormons. So the mill that was attacked wasn't even a Mormon mill, after all. [Rewrite the history books]
(2) From the above-linked article: With 17 Mormons killed and 14 Mormons injured, the historian explained that the massacre on October 30, 1838 was the "singular most tragic event in terms of loss of life and injury enacted by an anti-Mormon element against the Latter-day Saints in our entire church's history." Well, I would hope that historians would present history in a more balanced way. What's NOT mentioned in that article is that 12 days before this attack:
On October 18, 1838, Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith, Lyman Wight, D. W. Patten at the head of 40 men made a descent on Gallatin, the county seat of Daviess, and they burned the only store and stole their goods. Previous to the 25th of October a great part of the Mormons residing in Caldwell County had returned home with their dividend of plunder.
* 6 days before this attack: On October 25, 1838, the Battle of Crooked River: Mormon forces attacked (unknowingly?) the Missouri state militia under the command of Samuel Bogart. This incident became one of the principal points of conflicts in 1838 Missouri. The battle resulted in the death of three militia and the LDS leader, David Patten. One of the militia was taken prisoner by the Mormons. Source: http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/mormonism/are-christians-persecuting-mormons
This 'rogue' was likely the reconstituted Danites - a group who warred against gentiles and 'apostate' mormons - generally resulting in them murdering and burning them out.
Me one sided? that’s rich!
All I did was post the article and give you the link. I didn’t write it.
too funny!
Thank you very much for the link to the John Nelson “Life” book. Very interesting. I can’t stop reading it. The tragedy of the “wealthy emigrants” from California that met the selfish Mormons (1891: 164) is very sad.
I am so glad you came on here and thanked him for giving that link.
That is a really cool book! (and it was only your thank you that made me aware of it)
The churchs founder, the prophet Joseph Smith, had been tarred and weathered,
____________________________________________
Joey Smith had sex with a young girl and her family objected
His own Mormons tarred and feathered him on a Saturday night...
Next morning Sunday he was “preaching” in his religious building and as he spoke he deliberately met the eyes of his “tarred and weathered” attackers, his own followers...
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