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But I am not good enough, yet, to be able to do that. I carry all my sins upon my back, as punishment.

The burden has become to much to bear any longer; hence my thread.

I just spoke with a Pastor who’s church looked good on paper. My interview with him went well. He stated they are strictly Biblical. I asked about allowing the homosexuals as “pastors”. He then asked me “what does the Bible say about homosexuality”? I answered “He stated it is detestable to Him”.

The Pastor then went into scripture regarding that subject and they DO NOT allow it, as the Bible states.

I am going to their service on Sunday, he told me to come earlier and go to the hospitality suite for visitors. He told me to seek him out. I told him about my Bible studies w/ the JW’s and that is still the Bible I use. He told me to stay away from them because they are a cult and to throw out my Bible.

I said I couldn’t throw away my Bible, but could he do it for me. He told me to bring it with me and he would look it over. If it needs to be thrown out, he would do it for me and give me one of theirs. I believe they use the King James Version, but I could be wrong. There was so much info being passed back and forth my head was spinning!

He also stated that they do not believe the body and blood of Christ (they call it the last supper)is literal and told me to read the 1st Corinthians which explains it.

I read it and am very confused and have NO idea what I read (I will certainly tell him that part). He also stated if I believe the body and blood is literal I should seek the Catholic Church. I told him the problems I had with it (praying to Mary, Saints and statues).

I have a feeling I will be staying after the service for a true one on one. As I have stated before, a lot of what I believe can be wrong.....which I have a feeling a lot will be.

I just need to find that crooked, unlit path that is almost impossible to stay upon.

Cronos: but you do not have the erase your slate. indeed, you or I am not able to do this. I had a problem that was nagging me since Christmas -- a family bicker that festered. I couldn't get it off my shoulders. After I solemnly confessed, the relief was enormous. I didn't erase my slate -- He did.

NGZ: But I am not good enough, yet, to be able to do that. I carry all my sins upon my back, as punishment.

But you do not have to do so. Seriously -- do you think I'm any better than you? Hardly. We're all sinners here, you and me and all.

He also stated if I believe the body and blood is literal I should seek the Catholic Church -- perhaps you should come and see for yourself? Salvation or Highlyopinated can direct you to a good place near you? I'm aware this is like selling "my brand", but why don't you discover for yourself?

Bluntly we don't pray to any of those and I can describe that to you on freepmail otherwise this thread will descend into the standard FR RF mud-slinging.

If you are carrying your sins then you have not yet given them to Christ, am I right?

Jesus says......”Come to me,...you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.... Take my yoke upon you and learn from me,.... for I am gentle and humble in heart,.... and you will find rest for your souls....for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”... Matthew 11:28-30

You might want to think about meeting with Him...He’s waiting I would imagine. Just be there, He will take you the rest of the way when you meet with Him.

The Pastor was right to warn you away from JW’s. their bible has many errors as they translated it to fit their false teachings. I had met with Jehovah witness early on in my search also...but they kept insisting I use their bible, I refused and used the standards most use today. In no time the differences were amazingly sharp...they really do get it mangled up pretty bad...and yes they are a false religion.

Since you sound young in the faith, or perhaps not quite there yet, I would recommend the New International Bible..commonly refered to as the NIV. It is a direct translation and words are clearly understood in modern English. The King James is also good but old english is not always easy to read for some...but either/or you are good to go with. I use several good translations when studying..each gives light and even use Ungers Bible Dictionary and other references as well. But for reading I tend to like the NIV. It’s just very clear and understandable.

I also agree with the “Communion”...it is not the actual blood and body of Christ. We do this as a rememberance for the life Christ gave for us...just as Christ gave to his deciples at the last supper they shared together. He said “Do this in rememberance of me.” and if that’s good enough for his deciples it’s good enough..and more for me.
The bread and fruit of the vine simply represent his blood and body. But it is a solume moment as we reflect on all which Christ gave for our salvation.

I also like the fact he encouraged you to read the scripture about this. This would indicate the Pastor trusts the Lord to reveal to you the truth. And that’s a good indication. It wasn’t enough he said..he wanted you to check it out for yourself.

Don’t fret that you cann’t understand what you read...hopefully the Pastor will give you one of their bibles and then read it again. You might be pleasantly surprised how much you understand then.

For now it sounds good...so I’d go to the Sunday service and also their bible study to see further.

Some churches sound good but are very legalistic...time will tell as you walk this walk, and trust Christ to show you as you go. He will....

But I am not good enough, yet, to be able to do that. I carry all my sins upon my back, as punishment.

Regardless. You start your journey / quest from a different place. than I did. I suppose we all can say that. But, I had to come to believe in the reality of the Holy Communion (The Mysteries, as we EO call this)

Once I got that settled (St Ignatius speaks of the "medicine of immortality"), a narrowing occurred as to who claimed to dispense the medicine.

Then the rest - Mary, (the Theotokos we call her), icons, Confession of sins - all that could be understood - in time, with more prayer than I ever prayed.

The very, very first step was attending an Orthodox Divine Liturgy. It was a small congregation, in a borrowed space (sitting in pews - the ideal posture is standing). No choir - just a priest and one server.

But, it was reverent, worshipful and very intense. I said that day, "If there IS a God, this is proper and worship due a Supreme Being.

It took me about a year, but I did my part. I met other folks who came from my same tradition. I read a lot of books, and, again, prayed as if my soul eas at stake.

Now, I need to read the rest of the thread (between supper prep).

I was perhaps unnecessarily snarky upthread. I ask your forgiveness.

But I am not good enough, yet, to be able to do that. I carry all my sins upon my back, as punishment.

Lift your burden up to God, NoGrayZone, in all humble sincerity. Ask for His forgiveness, profess your belief in His Son, that He was crucified, died on the cross, rose on the third day ... a sacrifice to end all sacrifices, so that you might be forgiven of this sin and be victorious over the death entered into this world as a result of the first sin. So that all mankind who believes on Him might be forgiven, and have eternal life, those who believe and follow HIm.

It seems like the easiest thing in the world to do, in hindsight. In reality, for me, it was like a dam breaking, being literally broken and desperate, driven to my knees to seek it. I was too proud, it seemed silly until my whole world collapsed around me, or so it felt at the time. Having nowhere else to turn, I turned back to God. I'm not unique in that regard. Contrition is a very hard-earned thing for many.

It doesn't have to be that way for you, though. Just remember, humble sincerity. Just ask, ask Him to change your heart, that you might endeavor to sin no more. You'll stumble, yes, but remain repentant and keep trying.

That's all any of us fallen creatures are capable of doing. God does the rest.

Hello again, NGZ! I’m having a hard time staying on-line, so I’m following the thread slowly! :(

This preacher you have talked to seems to say some important things. Quote:

>He also stated that they do not believe the body and blood of Christ (they call it the last supper)is literal and told me to read the 1st Corinthians which explains it.

I read it and am very confused and have NO idea what I read (I will certainly tell him that part).<

Maybe I can help with that understanding. The verses that relate to the Lord’s Supper are at I Cor. 10: 16-17 and I Cor. 11:17-34. But all of these verses appear within the greater context that begins at 10:14 about fleeing from idolatry.

Back then, there were a lot of temples where sacrifices were made to idols, and then the sacrificial meat was sold in the open market. Paul is trying to help the Christians at Corinth have a clear understanding of what the Lord’s Supper means in respect to what they see around them.

Basically, he is telling them, since these idols don’t really exist, the food offered to them is just food. So, if you want to eat it, go ahead, it is no big deal. BUT—and there is a big BUT that follows— if it offends your conscious or someone else’s conscious for you to eat this meat— then DON’T EAT IT.

In the process of making sure they understand that idol worship should not be a part of their life in any way, he is also clarifying for them what exactly the Lord’s Supper is. It is not sacrificial food, like they see with the idol worshipers around them. The sacrifice was Christ’s death on the cross. It is however a sacred reminder of that sacrifice, so sacred in fact, that we must never partake of it in the sense that we eat lunch, nor without centering our very being on the moments of the cross.

You see, when Jesus first shared the supper with the disciples in the upper room, while His blood was still in his body, and his flesh still on His bones, he offered bread and fruit of the vine and said this is my body and blood. Paul repeats these exact words in I Cor. because Paul understands that Jesus meant for this to be a remembrance of Christ’s moments on the cross.

The passage in John which is being used to validate the idea of the actual blood and body of Christ comes in a greater context as well. The Jews Jesus is speaking to have asked him, what is He going to give them. After all, Moses gave them manna. Jesus says he is the manna that brings eternal life. If you eat me, you’ll live forever. This was disgusting to these Jews as it went against various laws that they followed. Many of them turned away and quit following him because of this understanding. But Peter, bless his earnest heart! Peter understood exactly what Jesus was saying. (John 6: 66-69) Jesus says, what about you, Peter, are you leaving too? Peter says, where would I go? You have the words of eternal life. You are the Son of the Living God.

Peter was so sincere! He *got* that manna coming down from heaven was just like the Word (Jesus) coming down from heaven to give eternal life to all who would come to Him. John, chapter one, tells the whole story so beautifully.

Anyway, I hope that helps, NGZ!

I was also encouraged to see the preacher referred you to the King James version. It has been trusted down through time because it was translated by many language specialists commissioned by King James with the job. They took the original Greek texts and translated them into English. They were under threat of the King’s wrath if they did not follow exact translation guides. That was a time when people used the Thee’s and Thou’s, so that is the English that it was translated to. The company that prints the King James has since printed a New King James version that changes the thee’s and thou’s to what we understand better as you, your, etc. I prefer it for that reason.

The English Standard is also a nice translation for the same reason of many scholars working together from the original Greek text.

The original New International Version started off in this same way, but the company printing this version has since diversified its versions. Printing laws require that with each printing of a new version, you must change the text in order to make it a different version. So over time, the NIV’s have been compromised a bit on translation. I appreciate that it is easier to read, but I don’t trust these versions wholly, for this reason.

There are many other “bibles” out there, but not all of them have been translated directly from the original Greek, or have been translated by one or a few people, which does not allow for checks and balances, or they have been translated strictly by scholars of a given set of beliefs, and may reflect the biases of those beliefs. It pays to read the “preface.” :)

Well, I do go on!!! Sorry to be so wordy. I hope I am helping. I will be praying that your heart is soon sure of your home!— Daisy

I just spoke with a Pastor who’s church looked good on paper. . . . He also stated that they do not believe the body and blood of Christ (they call it the last supper)is literal and told me to read the 1st Corinthians which explains it. I read it and am very confused and have NO idea what I read (I will certainly tell him that part). He also stated if I believe the body and blood is literal I should seek the Catholic Church.

Hi, NGZ. This church you mention sounds like it does *not* teach the biblical doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ's Body and Blood in the Sacrament. To me, that would be an absolute dealbreaker. I could not in good conscience go to that church, even though it may be good in other respects.

You yourself said, in your post 71, "if I'm going up there, I'm getting Christ's body." And you were right, for that is what Christ himself says we are receiving: "This is my body, given for you. This is my blood, shed for you for the forgiveness of sins."

And in post 217, you said that you truly believe that Jesus Christ's body is present in the Eucharist: "I do, I always have. Whenever the pastor would say 'take and eat, this is my body, given to you, do this in remembrance of me' I ALWAYS took it literally! Same with the wine." Again, you were right, NGZ, in the way you took it.

And in post 230 you say: "If Jesus says the only way to the Father is through Him, I take it literally, as I do the body and blood of Christ." Right again!

So if I were you, I would not even consider a church that disagrees with what Jesus himself says he is giving us.

But that does not mean you would need to go to a Roman Catholic church or to a liberal ELCA "Lutheran" (in name only) church. You could go to a conservative, confessional Lutheran church that teaches rightly about the Lord's Supper, that believes the Bible, and that does not have women pastors or approve of homosexuality. There are such churches even on Long Island.

I suggested Trinity Lutheran Church in New Hyde Park. Based on what I see on their website (which I just linked again), if I were looking for a church on Long Island, that is *exactly* the kind of church I would want. I would seriously check them out. If that one is too far (how many minutes from your home?), I could see if there's another good one closer to your home.

As far as how to understand the Lord's Supper, go with the Lord's words. Now I don't know how well you were catechized (instructed) in the faith, but I would recommend reading Luther's Small Catechism to give you a good grounding in the basics of the Christian faith. It's very good, a very helpful summary of biblical teaching. If you have questions about any of it, or anything else for that matter, I'd be happy to talk about it with you.

Here is the part on the Lord's Supper, the Sacrament of the Altar:

Sacrament of the Altar
As the head of the family should teach it in a simple way to his household

What is the Sacrament of the Altar?

It is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ under the bread and wine, instituted by Christ Himself for us Christians to eat and to drink.

Where is this written?

The holy Evangelists Matthew, Mark, Luke, and St. Paul write: Our Lord Jesus Christ, on the night when He was betrayed, took bread, and when He had given thanks, He broke it and gave it to the disciples and said: “Take, eat; this is My body, which is given for you. This do in remembrance of Me.”

In the same way also He took the cup after supper, and when He had given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you; this cup is the new testament in My blood, which is shed for you for the forgiveness of sins. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

What is the benefit of this eating and drinking?

These words, “Given and shed for you for the forgiveness of sins,” show us that in the Sacrament forgiveness of sins, life, and salvation are given us through these words. For where there is forgiveness of sins, there is also life and salvation.

How can bodily eating and drinking do such great things?

Certainly not just eating and drinking do these things, but the words written here: “Given and shed for you for the forgiveness of sins.” These words, along with the bodily eating and drinking, are the main thing in the Sacrament. Whoever believes these words has exactly what they say: “forgiveness of sins.”

Who receives this sacrament worthily?

Fasting and bodily preparation are certainly fine outward training. But that person is truly worthy and well prepared who has faith in these words: “Given and shed for you for the forgiveness of sins.”

But anyone who does not believe these words or doubts them is unworthy and unprepared, for the words “for you” require all hearts to believe.