Posted on 04/14/2011 9:21:51 AM PDT by marshmallow
The Ascension of Isaiah
“[T]he report concerning the child was noised abroad in Bethlehem. Some said, ‘The Virgin Mary has given birth before she was married two months.’ And many said, ‘She has not given birth; the midwife has not gone up to her, and we heard no cries of pain’” (Ascension of Isaiah 11 [A.D. 70]).
The Odes of Solomon
“So the Virgin became a mother with great mercies. And she labored and bore the Son, but without pain, because it did not occur without purpose. And she did not seek a midwife, because he caused her to give life. She bore as a strong man, with will . . . ” (Odes of Solomon 19 [A.D. 80])
Justin Martyr
“[Jesus] became man by the Virgin so that the course which was taken by disobedience in the beginning through the agency of the serpent might be also the very course by which it would be put down. Eve, a virgin and undefiled, conceived the word of the serpent and bore disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy when the angel Gabriel announced to her the glad tidings that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her and the power of the Most High would overshadow her, for which reason the Holy One being born of her is the Son of God. And she replied ‘Be it done unto me according to your word’ [Luke 1:38]” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 100 [A.D. 155]).
Irenaeus
“Consequently, then, Mary the Virgin is found to be obedient, saying, ‘Behold, O Lord, your handmaid; be it done to me according to your word.’ Eve, however, was disobedient, and, when yet a virgin, she did not obey. Just as she, who was then still a virgin although she had Adam for a husband—for in paradise they were both naked but were not ashamed; for, having been created only a short time, they had no understanding of the procreation of children, and it was necessary that they first come to maturity before beginning to multiply—having become disobedient, was made the cause of death for herself and for the whole human race; so also Mary, betrothed to a man but nevertheless still a virgin, being obedient, was made the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. . . . Thus, the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith” (Against Heresies 3:22:24 [A.D. 189]).
“The Lord then was manifestly coming to his own things, and was sustaining them by means of that creation that is supported by himself. He was making a recapitulation of that disobedience that had occurred in connection with a tree, through the obedience that was upon a tree [i.e., the cross]. Furthermore, the original deception was to be done away with—the deception by which that virgin Eve (who was already espoused to a man) was unhappily misled. That this was to be overturned was happily announced through means of the truth by the angel to the Virgin Mary (who was also [espoused] to a man). . . . So if Eve disobeyed God, yet Mary was persuaded to be obedient to God. In this way, the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to death by means of a virgin, so it is rescued by a virgin. Virginal disobedience has been balanced in the opposite scale by virginal obedience. For in the same way, the sin of the first created man received amendment by the correction of the First-Begotten” (ibid., 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]).
Tertullian
“And again, lest I depart from my argumentation on the name of Adam: Why is Christ called Adam by the apostle [Paul], if as man he was not of that earthly origin? But even reason defends this conclusion, that God recovered his image and likeness by a procedure similar to that in which he had been robbed of it by the devil. It was while Eve was still a virgin that the word of the devil crept in to erect an edifice of death. Likewise through a virgin the Word of God was introduced to set up a structure of life. Thus what had been laid waste in ruin by this sex was by the same sex reestablished in salvation. Eve had believed the serpent; Mary believed Gabriel. That which the one destroyed by believing, the other, by believing, set straight” (The Flesh of Christ 17:4 [A.D. 210].
Pseudo-Melito
“If therefore it might come to pass by the power of your grace, it has appeared right to us your servants that, as you, having overcome death, do reign in glory, so you should raise up the body of your Mother and take her with you, rejoicing, into heaven. Then said the Savior [Jesus]: ‘Be it done according to your will’” (The Passing of the Virgin 16:2–17 [A.D. 300]).
Ephraim the Syrian
“You alone and your Mother are more beautiful than any others, for there is no blemish in you nor any stains upon your Mother. Who of my children can compare in beauty to these?” (Nisibene Hymns 27:8 [A.D. 361]).
Ambrose of Milan
“Mary’s life should be for you a pictorial image of virginity. Her life is like a mirror reflecting the face of chastity and the form of virtue. Therein you may find a model for your own life . . . showing what to improve, what to imitate, what to hold fast to” (The Virgins 2:2:6 [A.D. 377]).
“The first thing which kindles ardor in learning is the greatness of the teacher. What is greater [to teach by example] than the Mother of God? What more glorious than she whom Glory Itself chose? What more chaste than she who bore a body without contact with another body? For why should I speak of her other virtues? She was a virgin not only in body but also in mind, who stained the sincerity of its disposition by no guile, who was humble in heart, grave in speech, prudent in mind, sparing of words, studious in reading, resting her hope not on uncertain riches, but on the prayer of the poor, intent on work, modest in discourse; wont to seek not man but God as the judge of her thoughts, to injure no one, to have goodwill towards all, to rise up before her elders, not to envy her equals, to avoid boastfulness, to follow reason, to love virtue. When did she pain her parents even by a look? When did she disagree with her neighbors? When did she despise the lowly? When did she avoid the needy?” (ibid., 2:2:7).
“Come, then, and search out your sheep, not through your servants or hired men, but do it yourself. Lift me up bodily and in the flesh, which is fallen in Adam. Lift me up not from Sarah but from Mary, a virgin not only undefiled, but a virgin whom grace had made inviolate, free of every stain of sin” (Commentary on Psalm 118:22–30 [A.D. 387]).
Augustine
“Our Lord . . . was not averse to males, for he took the form of a male, nor to females, for of a female he was born. Besides, there is a great mystery here: that just as death comes to us through a woman, life is born to us through a woman; that the devil, defeated, would be tormented by each nature, feminine and masculine, as he had taken delight in the defection of both” (Christian Combat 22:24 [A.D. 396]).
“That one woman is both mother and virgin, not in spirit only but even in body. In spirit she is mother, not of our head, who is our Savior himself—of whom all, even she herself, are rightly called children of the bridegroom—but plainly she is the mother of us who are his members, because by love she has cooperated so that the faithful, who are the members of that head, might be born in the Church. In body, indeed, she is the Mother of that very head” (Holy Virginity 6:6 [A.D. 401]).
…
“Having excepted the holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom, on account of the honor of the Lord, I wish to have absolutely no question when treating of sins—for how do we know what abundance of grace for the total overcoming of sin was conferred upon her, who merited to conceive and bear him in whom there was no sin?—so, I say, with the exception of the Virgin, if we could have gathered together all those holy men and women, when they were living here, and had asked them whether they were without sin, what do we suppose would have been their answer?” (Nature and Grace 36:42 [A.D. 415]).
Timothy of Jerusalem
“Therefore the Virgin is immortal to this day, seeing that he who had dwelt in her transported her to the regions of her assumption” (Homily on Simeon and Anna [A.D. 400]).
John the Theologian
“[T]he Lord said to his Mother, ‘Let your heart rejoice and be glad, for every favor and every gift has been given to you from my Father in heaven and from me and from the Holy Spirit. Every soul that calls upon your name shall not be ashamed, but shall find mercy and comfort and support and confidence, both in the world that now is and in that which is to come, in the presence of my Father in the heavens’” (The Falling Asleep of Mary [A.D. 400]).
“And from that time forth all knew that the spotless and precious body had been transferred to paradise” (ibid.).
Gregory of Tours
“The course of this life having been completed by blessed Mary, when now she would be called from the world, all the apostles came together from their various regions to her house. And when they had heard that she was about to be taken from the world, they kept watch together with her. And behold, the Lord Jesus came with his angels, and, taking her soul, he gave it over to the angel Michael and withdrew. At daybreak, however, the apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb, and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; the holy body having been received, he commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise, where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary’s body] rejoices with the Lord’s chosen ones and is in the enjoyment of the good of an eternity that will never end” (Eight Books of Miracles 1:4 [A.D. 584]).
“But Mary, the glorious Mother of Christ, who is believed to be a virgin both before and after she bore him, has, as we said above, been translated into paradise, amid the singing of the angelic choirs, whither the Lord preceded her” (ibid., 1:8).
This headline says "Church Fathers - ......." -- It puts forth a positive statement, not a negative one. Similarly one saying say "Talking in tongues, how to reach closer to God" is a positive headline as opposed to say "If you don't do zzzz you're not going to reach God". With due respect, this headline is not provocative
contentious topics -- I, personally, do think that contentious topics shouldn't be posted during Lent, a time when we should ideally be focusing more on our faults and on the Savior, Our Lord and God Jesus Christ. However, that is my personal opinion, marshmallow is also an individual as are you all, free to ignore this article. It may put forth something you disagree with yet the article does not say "you be wrong to not agree with this"
one of 5 threads. Well, the devotional threads are just that -- devotional, or caucus. This is Lent when we need to focus more on our faith (ideally we should focus throughout the year, but most of us fail, however, this should be the kick to remember the mystery that is coming up next Sunday, Pascha), so hence the reason. Besides which, Catholics are 25% of the population, so 20% of the posts are less than proportional, correct?
finally It is not informative, it is an attempt to push religious dogma. Taking this impartially -- no, this is not "pushing" - this is a text out there, free to be ignored, or disagreed with, yes, this is stating religious dogma, yet you cannot say this is not informative. you may disagree with the information presented, but it is information. Religious dogma.
If you disagree with this information, that's ok, it's your choice. If you choose to not read what is stated and argue, that is argumentative. If you choose to ignore this thread utterly (as I did until I saw your post), it's your choice again. Please note that your post starts off as highly contentious and wrong
True enough and no one says that they are equal. And definitely this article DOES NOT say they are equal
Therefore when a belief that the early Church Fathers held held CONFLICTS with Scripture, it is Scripture which must hold sway. again -- this article does not posit that point. On this particular matter, we would of course disagree as we believe that this p. does NOT conflict with S.
Why does your group go against the WORDS of the great “I AM”, the Alpha and Omega.
It really does seems you have a lack of interest in your own group - you obsessively post about Catholics and never once mention your group’s beliefs. Very strange, but understandable as your group doesn't want to reveal what your group really believes in..
It seems that there is a group of anti-Christian leftists here who will not reveal their true leftist agenda
So, let's does your group :
It's very strange that your group doesn't reveal anything about it's basic beliefs but hides behind shouts and insults. I've seen the left do the same...
You like my posts and my beliefs SO MUCH, you use them yourself. How cute - taking what is others and using it for yourself even though they don’t apply. Liberals do the same.
It's very strange that your group doesn't reveal anything about it's basic beliefs but hides behind shouts and insults. I've seen the left do the same...
As I was pointing out, there was a leftist, Hankkerchief aka Reginald Firehammer who kept trying to foment intra-Christian fights but never revealed what he himself belived in, only focusing on little barbs.
Tell us presently, what does your group believe in?
Does your group believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
As I was pointing out, there was a leftist, Hankkerchief aka Reginald Firehammer who kept trying to foment intra-Christian fights but never revealed what he himself belived in, only focusing on little barbs.
Tell us presently, what does your group believe in?
Does your group believe in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, The Only Son of God, Eternally Begotten of the Father, begotten, not made, ONE in being with the Father, through whom all things was made
As I was pointing out, there was a leftist, Hankkerchief aka Reginald Firehammer who kept trying to foment intra-Christian fights but never revealed what he himself belived in, only focusing on little barbs.
Tell us presently, what does your group believe in?
Does your group believe that Jesus Christ, God the Son became incarnate in the person of Jesus of Nazareth, was born of a virgin through the Holy Spirit. That God truly became human in Jesus Christ.
Does your group believe as we Christians do, that Jesus Christ was fully man and fully God or doesn't your group believe that He was a spirit or ghost
As I was pointing out, there was a leftist, Hankkerchief aka Reginald Firehammer who kept trying to foment intra-Christian fights but never revealed what he himself belived in, only focusing on little barbs.
Tell us presently, what does your group believe in?
Does your group believe that Jesus Christ, God the Son was crucified, DIED and was buried. Does your group believe that or does your group believe that Jesus was not crucified or died, but was spirited away?
Does your group believe that for our sake Jesus Christ our Lord, God and Savior rose again in fulfilment of the scritpures?
Does your group believe that Jesus Christ, God the Son was crucified, DIED and was buried. And on the third day He rose again, ascended into heaven?
Does your group believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life?
As I said, leftist scum like Hank Kerchief would not reveal his beliefs because it would expose him as a leftist anti-Christian.
Why not post about the non-Christian, Marxist, anti-Christian beliefs of your own group?
Your group fears that if it's agenda to divide Christians is revealed, it's main plank of pretending to be Christian will be destroyed and Christians will unite to oppose your leftist group.
Since I find that most anti Catholics are often wrong or misleading in their Scriptural understanding, let us look at actual Scripture.
Acts 10: 34 12 Then Peter proceeded to speak and said, 13 "In truth, I see that God shows no partiality. 35 Rather, in every nation whoever fears him and acts uprightly is acceptable to him.
It says here that God find ALL of those nations who fear Him and act uprightly are acceptable to Him - He does not pick and choose among them. This is intended to be a teaching on those whom God finds acceptable - not a teaching on individuals. Next.
Romans 2: 5 By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, 6 who will repay everyone according to his works: 3 7 eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, 8 but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness. 9 Yes, affliction and distress will come upon every human being who does evil, Jew first and then Greek. 10 But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, Jew first and then Greek. 11 4 There is no partiality with God. 12 5 All who sin outside the law will also perish without reference to it, and all who sin under the law will be judged in accordance with it. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, 6 while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people's hidden works through Christ Jesus.
Here are some lessons that are very important to the individual. The first is that God will Judge each man according to his works and that God does not pick and choose amongst those who do good - only that they do good works.
This alone separates the Gospel of Jesus from the gospels created by the men of the Reformation. Next, what do we find?
All men sin: those who sin outside the law will perish. All those who sin under the law will be Judged by it. Since all men are sinners, which category does each man wish to be put in? Those who claim to be outside the law will perish according to Paul. Do you guys ever read any of Paul that is off the prescribed reading list?
Besides, that prayer of that pope goes way over the line of just honoring someone.
In your opinion, you mean. In the opinion of the Church Fathers, the Apostlic Fathers, and even St. Luke, Gospel writer, reverence to Mary is not only simply understood for Christians, but expected.
2 Corinthians 11: 12 And what I do I will continue to do, in order to end this pretext of those who seek a pretext for being regarded as we are in the mission of which they boast. 13 10 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, who masquerade as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light. 15 So it is not strange that his ministers also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
We see the deeds: those who perpetrate them boast of them. Paul has a different teaching for those who preach another Gospel than the one that the Church teaches.
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