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The Church Fathers-Mary: Without Sin
The Church Fathers ^ | 70AD-584AD

Posted on 04/14/2011 9:21:51 AM PDT by marshmallow

The Ascension of Isaiah

“[T]he report concerning the child was noised abroad in Bethlehem. Some said, ‘The Virgin Mary has given birth before she was married two months.’ And many said, ‘She has not given birth; the midwife has not gone up to her, and we heard no cries of pain’” (Ascension of Isaiah 11 [A.D. 70]).

The Odes of Solomon

“So the Virgin became a mother with great mercies. And she labored and bore the Son, but without pain, because it did not occur without purpose. And she did not seek a midwife, because he caused her to give life. She bore as a strong man, with will . . . ” (Odes of Solomon 19 [A.D. 80])

Justin Martyr

“[Jesus] became man by the Virgin so that the course which was taken by disobedience in the beginning through the agency of the serpent might be also the very course by which it would be put down. Eve, a virgin and undefiled, conceived the word of the serpent and bore disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy when the angel Gabriel announced to her the glad tidings that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her and the power of the Most High would overshadow her, for which reason the Holy One being born of her is the Son of God. And she replied ‘Be it done unto me according to your word’ [Luke 1:38]” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 100 [A.D. 155]).

Irenaeus

“Consequently, then, Mary the Virgin is found to be obedient, saying, ‘Behold, O Lord, your handmaid; be it done to me according to your word.’ Eve, however, was disobedient, and, when yet a virgin, she did not obey. Just as she, who was then still a virgin although she had Adam for a husband—for in paradise they were both naked but were not ashamed; for, having been created only a short time, they had no understanding of the procreation of children, and it was necessary that they first come to maturity before beginning to multiply—having become disobedient, was made the cause of death for herself and for the whole human race; so also Mary, betrothed to a man but nevertheless still a virgin, being obedient, was made the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. . . . Thus, the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith” (Against Heresies 3:22:24 [A.D. 189]).

“The Lord then was manifestly coming to his own things, and was sustaining them by means of that creation that is supported by himself. He was making a recapitulation of that disobedience that had occurred in connection with a tree, through the obedience that was upon a tree [i.e., the cross]. Furthermore, the original deception was to be done away with—the deception by which that virgin Eve (who was already espoused to a man) was unhappily misled. That this was to be overturned was happily announced through means of the truth by the angel to the Virgin Mary (who was also [espoused] to a man). . . . So if Eve disobeyed God, yet Mary was persuaded to be obedient to God. In this way, the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to death by means of a virgin, so it is rescued by a virgin. Virginal disobedience has been balanced in the opposite scale by virginal obedience. For in the same way, the sin of the first created man received amendment by the correction of the First-Begotten” (ibid., 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian

“And again, lest I depart from my argumentation on the name of Adam: Why is Christ called Adam by the apostle [Paul], if as man he was not of that earthly origin? But even reason defends this conclusion, that God recovered his image and likeness by a procedure similar to that in which he had been robbed of it by the devil. It was while Eve was still a virgin that the word of the devil crept in to erect an edifice of death. Likewise through a virgin the Word of God was introduced to set up a structure of life. Thus what had been laid waste in ruin by this sex was by the same sex reestablished in salvation. Eve had believed the serpent; Mary believed Gabriel. That which the one destroyed by believing, the other, by believing, set straight” (The Flesh of Christ 17:4 [A.D. 210].

Pseudo-Melito

“If therefore it might come to pass by the power of your grace, it has appeared right to us your servants that, as you, having overcome death, do reign in glory, so you should raise up the body of your Mother and take her with you, rejoicing, into heaven. Then said the Savior [Jesus]: ‘Be it done according to your will’” (The Passing of the Virgin 16:2–17 [A.D. 300]).

Ephraim the Syrian

“You alone and your Mother are more beautiful than any others, for there is no blemish in you nor any stains upon your Mother. Who of my children can compare in beauty to these?” (Nisibene Hymns 27:8 [A.D. 361]).

Ambrose of Milan

“Mary’s life should be for you a pictorial image of virginity. Her life is like a mirror reflecting the face of chastity and the form of virtue. Therein you may find a model for your own life . . . showing what to improve, what to imitate, what to hold fast to” (The Virgins 2:2:6 [A.D. 377]).

“The first thing which kindles ardor in learning is the greatness of the teacher. What is greater [to teach by example] than the Mother of God? What more glorious than she whom Glory Itself chose? What more chaste than she who bore a body without contact with another body? For why should I speak of her other virtues? She was a virgin not only in body but also in mind, who stained the sincerity of its disposition by no guile, who was humble in heart, grave in speech, prudent in mind, sparing of words, studious in reading, resting her hope not on uncertain riches, but on the prayer of the poor, intent on work, modest in discourse; wont to seek not man but God as the judge of her thoughts, to injure no one, to have goodwill towards all, to rise up before her elders, not to envy her equals, to avoid boastfulness, to follow reason, to love virtue. When did she pain her parents even by a look? When did she disagree with her neighbors? When did she despise the lowly? When did she avoid the needy?” (ibid., 2:2:7).

“Come, then, and search out your sheep, not through your servants or hired men, but do it yourself. Lift me up bodily and in the flesh, which is fallen in Adam. Lift me up not from Sarah but from Mary, a virgin not only undefiled, but a virgin whom grace had made inviolate, free of every stain of sin” (Commentary on Psalm 118:22–30 [A.D. 387]).

Augustine

“Our Lord . . . was not averse to males, for he took the form of a male, nor to females, for of a female he was born. Besides, there is a great mystery here: that just as death comes to us through a woman, life is born to us through a woman; that the devil, defeated, would be tormented by each nature, feminine and masculine, as he had taken delight in the defection of both” (Christian Combat 22:24 [A.D. 396]).

“That one woman is both mother and virgin, not in spirit only but even in body. In spirit she is mother, not of our head, who is our Savior himself—of whom all, even she herself, are rightly called children of the bridegroom—but plainly she is the mother of us who are his members, because by love she has cooperated so that the faithful, who are the members of that head, might be born in the Church. In body, indeed, she is the Mother of that very head” (Holy Virginity 6:6 [A.D. 401]).

“Having excepted the holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom, on account of the honor of the Lord, I wish to have absolutely no question when treating of sins—for how do we know what abundance of grace for the total overcoming of sin was conferred upon her, who merited to conceive and bear him in whom there was no sin?—so, I say, with the exception of the Virgin, if we could have gathered together all those holy men and women, when they were living here, and had asked them whether they were without sin, what do we suppose would have been their answer?” (Nature and Grace 36:42 [A.D. 415]).

Timothy of Jerusalem

“Therefore the Virgin is immortal to this day, seeing that he who had dwelt in her transported her to the regions of her assumption” (Homily on Simeon and Anna [A.D. 400]).

John the Theologian

“[T]he Lord said to his Mother, ‘Let your heart rejoice and be glad, for every favor and every gift has been given to you from my Father in heaven and from me and from the Holy Spirit. Every soul that calls upon your name shall not be ashamed, but shall find mercy and comfort and support and confidence, both in the world that now is and in that which is to come, in the presence of my Father in the heavens’” (The Falling Asleep of Mary [A.D. 400]).

“And from that time forth all knew that the spotless and precious body had been transferred to paradise” (ibid.).

Gregory of Tours

“The course of this life having been completed by blessed Mary, when now she would be called from the world, all the apostles came together from their various regions to her house. And when they had heard that she was about to be taken from the world, they kept watch together with her. And behold, the Lord Jesus came with his angels, and, taking her soul, he gave it over to the angel Michael and withdrew. At daybreak, however, the apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb, and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; the holy body having been received, he commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise, where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary’s body] rejoices with the Lord’s chosen ones and is in the enjoyment of the good of an eternity that will never end” (Eight Books of Miracles 1:4 [A.D. 584]).

“But Mary, the glorious Mother of Christ, who is believed to be a virgin both before and after she bore him, has, as we said above, been translated into paradise, amid the singing of the angelic choirs, whither the Lord preceded her” (ibid., 1:8).


TOPICS: Catholic; Theology
KEYWORDS: maryiworshipthee; thereisnonebutthee
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To: veracious

**Correct, further, although not recorded, I personally suspect that Mary was with the disciples when Jesus/Yeshua breathed on them and said “receive the holy spirit”, the firstborn of the 2nd covenant church.**

Personally suspect??
That’s how a lot of sects get their start.

I believe that Jesus was issuing a command to them, and that they didn’t receive the Holy Ghost at that moment, but later, on Pentecost.

Before the crucifixion, Jesus told Peter “when though art converted strengthen the brethern”. That conversion was on Pentecost, where Mary received the Spirit as well.

In Acts 11, Peter, when ‘called on the carpet’ for preaching to the Gentiles (in Acts 10) responded: “And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, AS ON US AT THE BEGINNING.” (vs 15)

Lord bless


181 posted on 04/14/2011 7:23:16 PM PDT by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: metmom
No, there are fine distinctions and this is one of them.

I have no intention of worshiping Mary, and I can tell the difference between the high honor due the Mother of God, the Christ-bearer (great as that honor is), and the worship and adoration due to God Himself.

A man madly in love who tells his intended that he 'worships' her, that she's 'perfect', that she's 'a goddess', etc. doesn't think that he's giving his bride-to-be worship due only to God. But he does love her very much and engages in hyperbole in order to express that love.

How much more should we love the great and humble lady who consented to bring God to us as a little child . . . the very thought of it is incredible. Certainly if I am ever blessed to meet her it will be more wonderful than meeting the greatest head of state, the finest musician, the most famous sports figure. And she will lead me to her Son, as she always does . . . "Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it."

Pius XII was, as I said, a very emotional man and, after all, an Italian from a very old-fashioned and aristocratic family. That he would use such highflown language does not surprise me in the least.

And I am pretty confident that I am not deluded.

182 posted on 04/14/2011 7:32:43 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: metmom

Metmom, there simply is no way they will call it worship....for to do so would then mean they’ve upsurped God’s rightful place...and they know this. So they must continue to call it “something else”. Also it would mean going against what the Vatican teaches and we know that too just won’t happen.


183 posted on 04/14/2011 7:34:44 PM PDT by caww
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To: Lera
Thanks for your reply.

It is true that modern Protestantism is quite different in this regard.

"Most remarkable to modern Protestants is the Reformers' almost universal acceptance of Mary's continuing virginity, and their widespread reluctance to declare Mary a sinner."
- Chosen by God: Mary in Evangelical Perspective
An Evangelical critique of Mariology
My perspective of Bible only is that, over time, it became making a virtue of necessity. Still, in scripture there is the Church; however, instead of one Church and its Scripture and doctrine, for Protestantism it became many churches with different doctrines.
184 posted on 04/14/2011 7:38:03 PM PDT by D-fendr
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To: AnAmericanMother
LOL!! And there we have it folks - the result of the RCC man-made teachings where deception reigns.

And, as usual, all in opposition to God's Word.

He saved hundreds of thousands of Jews from the Nazis

Distorting history like distorting God's Word to suit the catholic agenda is really old. It reeks of liberalism - distorting truth doesn't work on this conservative site.
185 posted on 04/14/2011 7:40:16 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: AnAmericanMother
It makes perfect sense for God

What did God's Word say about leaning unto your own understanding? Is that one torn out of the catholic bible, also, or do they just ignore it?
186 posted on 04/14/2011 7:44:24 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: AnAmericanMother
No, there are fine distinctions and this is one of them.

We are not to be respecters of persons.

But then again, that's found in Scripture.

Besides, that prayer of that pope goes way over the line of just honoring someone.

187 posted on 04/14/2011 7:51:43 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: caww; metmom
So they must continue to call it “something else”.

Exactly. Deception begets deception.

They use the wiggle words. It's not only a fact but anyone who 'was' a catholic knows it by experience. It's all idolatry and we know how that plays out in the end.
188 posted on 04/14/2011 7:58:10 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: AnAmericanMother; RoadGumby; presently no screen name; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; ...
It makes perfect sense for God to purify the woman who was going to carry God in her body for nine months and then have (with St. Joseph) the raising and education of Him for all of His childhood. It is contrary to nothing in scripture, and indeed tallies with the angel Gabriel's salutation - "Hail, full of grace" (in the Greek, the verb form indicates a complete and perfect fullness) - with no room left for sin.

Why?

Sin is not transmitted by physical contact.

There's not one shred of Scriptural support for Mary being sinless or ever virgin.

Saying that someone is full of grace does not mean they're sinless. The two terms are not used interchangeably in Scripture.

But that's right. What is written in the Bible is not important to Catholics. What is important is what some ecclesiastical committee decides by consensus and majority vote.

Yeah, that's the ticket. What a reliable way to determine truth.

In the Bible, God says that we are not to make images and bow down to them. The word in Hebrew is the same word used for *worship*.

In God's way of thinking, from HIS WORD, bowing down to an image and serving it is worship.

Do Catholics really have the hubris to redefine words which God has defined already?

It's bad enough that, control freaks that they are, they try to own every other word in the English language, but to redefine what God says, too? That's chutzpah.

189 posted on 04/14/2011 8:00:35 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change; ...

A whole thread about Catholic teaching about Mary and not one verse of Scripture to back up any of it. Just opinion pieces of men.


190 posted on 04/14/2011 8:05:23 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Rashputin

I must give that post a few points for at least some slightly above average creativity for the RC side.


191 posted on 04/14/2011 8:20:48 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: presently no screen name

Yes, and they are content with having it so. There is ‘comfort in the familiar’ even when one is dead wrong.

I just cannot understand why one would give such adoration to Mary when she herself would never want it to be so for She fully understood what her son endured on behalf of mankind and the Glory due Him...not her...not ever. Yet the picture painted of her is often times equal to Christ and even above Him.....I don’t understand how people can do that...even after all the reasonings they’ve given..it holds no water at all.


192 posted on 04/14/2011 8:26:22 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww
There is ‘comfort in the familiar’ even when one is dead wrong.

So well said!
193 posted on 04/14/2011 8:34:50 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: D-fendr

Denomination is local , if they are true believers they have the same Father , the same Messiah and the same Spirit.

The real church does not put the created before “The Creator”

No denominations between Catholics ? LOL


194 posted on 04/14/2011 8:45:07 PM PDT by Lera
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To: presently no screen name

I can substantiate that as well...

When my good friends husband died she stood next to his coffin stroking his hair as she always did, this was a comfort for her even though he was not really there any longer. People passed by and she’d smile and reach over a stroke his hair some more. Talking as if he was still there in every way. It was difficult for her to let go as you can imagine....she wasn’t denying the fact he was not there, she knew all to well otherwise...yet still she needed the comfort of the familiar..and no one gave that to her quite like the man she had loved for so many years.

So perhaps this too is why catholics cannot let go of their adoration and worship of mary....even though she is not there either...and never was...their church has made her into an icon which is deeply imbedded in them from childhood. Hard to let go of...but possible for those who want to know the truth...


195 posted on 04/14/2011 8:52:10 PM PDT by caww
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To: presently no screen name
Because God’s Word says ONLY JESUS was born without sin! And their existence is solely to oppose God’s Word!

your entire posting was nonsense....for example, Adam and Eve were born without sin.....and why would God allow a soiled container to hold the body of His son?????think about it

196 posted on 04/14/2011 8:54:51 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: AnAmericanMother
Mary having free will, she had the power to say "No." By assenting to God's plan, "Be it done unto me according to Thy word," she did put into motion the conquest of sin and death. Had she refused, the Incarnation would not have occurred - at least not then and in that way.

Please pardon my butting in on a thread where I'm not of either party, but I simply don't understand this claim of Catholicism and never will.

On the one hand Mary was absolutely sinless. On the other she was totally free to refuse the annunciation. What would have happened had she theoretically done this? Would she have remained perfect and sinless? Would G-d have had to raise up more immaculately conceived, sinless women (each with free will) until one of them finally assented? Theoretically half of the human race could have wound up "redeemed from sin" ahead of the actual "redemption."

197 posted on 04/14/2011 8:55:07 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Hachodesh hazeh lakhem ro'sh chodashim; ri'shon hu' lakhem lechodshey hashanah.)
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To: ForAmerica
If that's true, Mary could have died for the sins of the world. We needed someone without original sin to die for us sinners.

wrong again kemosabe....the only sacrifice that would satisfy God is the sacrifice of Himself....Mary was a mere mortal but not sufficient as a sacrifice for redemption of mankind

198 posted on 04/14/2011 9:05:07 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: caww

That lady was in grief and I totally understand what she did and I’m sure she expected him there when she woke up in the a.m. for a brief time. That’s love - part of her is no more.

Catholics are steeped in deception and they enjoy it. The fact that the RCC man made teachings oppose God’s Word doesn’t bother them. No love for Him or His Word - just their church that opposes Him.

” No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other...”,


199 posted on 04/14/2011 9:07:57 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: marshmallow

True!!


200 posted on 04/14/2011 9:09:51 PM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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