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To: re_nortex

>>The Lord is a Just God and everlasting punishment is as much a part of His Almighty Plan as is eternal happiness in His Glorious Heaven.<<

Where did you read that?

I like this analogy of the concept of eternal hell (not mine):

Suppose for a moment that a wonderful man—Mr. Right, if you will—offers a marriage proposal to the woman he loves. “Marry me,” he says, “and I will give you a life like you’ve never dreamed of before. You will be loved with the greatest commitment and passion that any woman has ever known. I will give you the finest house with all of the wonderful things you’ve ever wanted, and you will be happy for the rest of your days!”

Now suppose the woman is very flattered by the proposal, but is uncertain about whether or not she is ready for such a commitment. Asking for a few more days to think it over, Mr. Right answers, “You are welcome to take more time, but it’s only fair that I warn you what will happen if you decline my generous offer. Your only option, other than spending paradise with me, is to be thrown into my underground dungeon, have your eyes gouged from their sockets, and be subjected to unimaginable pain every hour, on the hour, for the rest of your long, miserable life.”

What do you suppose would be going through the young woman’s mind at a time like this? I imagine that would change the way she feels about the man considerably. She might have previously accepted Mr. Right’s proposal because of her love for him, but is there much chance of that now? Surely not. If she takes him seriously, she’ll undoubtedly marry him, but not as much for love as out of genuine terror at the alternative.

Is this God’s way of doing things? Does God want His people to turn to Him out of fear that they will be tortured otherwise? Where is the love in that? If everyone really believed in this doctrine, wouldn’t that properly tarnish their concept of the Savior? I would imagine some might even have a hard time calling Him “Savior” at all. How merciful can it be to create a never-ending torture pit for everyone and then save only a few from it?


17 posted on 03/06/2011 1:08:47 AM PST by RobRoy (The US Today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: RobRoy

Unfortunately, I believe your analogy is incorrect. If we are considered to be the “bride-to-be,” then we must also see ourselves as one who cheated, or sinned against the loving husband (original sin, or the fall of man in the Garden of Eden). That act in the garden of wanting to be like God was enough for Him to turn his back on us. However, God so loves us and wants us to be with him for eternity that he sacrificed Himself through his Son, Jesus Christ. All we have to do is accept His sacrifice and live lives worthy of His sacrifice to be with him forever.


20 posted on 03/06/2011 1:37:15 AM PST by reegs
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To: RobRoy
Does God want His people to turn to Him out of fear that they will be tortured otherwise? Where is the love in that?

Straw dog argument. Let's not fall for that.

All humanity is condemned, but there will be a Judgment and those found to be righteous and justified have salvation. We don't place our faith in Christ when we fear Him, rather fear (, not hate,) is the opposite of love, and it is the natural reaction in our perspective when we are not in fellowship with perfect righteousness and justice.

When we sin, i.e. when we miss the mark of His Plan, our perspective of Him is not in fellowship with Him, but instead one of expectation of fiery indignation. If for no other reason we realize the fallen angels were judged and condemned with less provision than what He has given in His perfect Sacrifice for us, so it's perfectly reasonable to anticipate fiery indignation for our sin.

The difference in that perspective and the Christian walk is that Christ has already paid the price for ALL sin.

No human being is going to be sent to eternal torment for their personal sins. Christ already settled that issue on the Cross. If He hadn't there would be no certainty or hope of eternal salvation.

Instead, He provides for our sanctification and in order to provide that, we must be in fellowship with Him. So when we sin, we re-enter into that fellowship by turning back to Him, confessing our sin to Him, (which BTW He already knew about from eternity past) and He is sure and just to forgive us that sin.

Judgment is different than forgiveness. The Cross was all about judgment. That is why we are able to be forgiven on a moment's notice today by a just and righteous God who always does the right thing in a right way.

Judgment is going to come to determine the eternal destiny of those whom He has created. Those predestined as the elect will escape the Great White Throne Judgment, but will face the bema seat for rewards.

I've considered the philosophy of hell as a parable, but its usage in Scripture is definitely locative and is spiritually perceived and described from perceptions using physical descriptions.

It really doesn't matter if one doesn't believe it exists, because when it is perceived, the people perceiving it will be unable to avoid it and it has been perceived and described as an eternal lake of fire.

22 posted on 03/06/2011 1:59:34 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: RobRoy

Bad analogy. Your example only works if the woman was already on death row about to be executed for a series of gruesome crimes, a person who deserved the death penalty 100 times over. And God gives that person a chance at Heaven or allows them to continue on their way to go to the hell they deserve. God has no obligation to save anyone from the Hell they deserve and ask for. That he saves some as a result of their own choice to be with him is pure grace and perfect love. Perfect because God himself had to die to accomplish it.


27 posted on 03/06/2011 3:03:48 AM PST by circlecity
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To: RobRoy
Where did you read that? [everlasting punishment]

The Bible, specifically Matthew 25:41-46. I'll also add that this teaching was part of my education at a Conservative Christian college (now a university).

God's Holy Word (Revelation 21:8-10) clearly states that unbelievers will be "tormented day and night for ever and ever."

The Almighty Lord is not responsible for the endless suffering. That is strictly the fault of the sinner, who is deserving of eternal punishment.

69 posted on 03/06/2011 11:02:38 AM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: RobRoy

Your analogy works only if you consider that the woman in your example really deserved the alternative, the torture


96 posted on 03/06/2011 8:38:46 PM PST by OrthodoxKirkPresbyterian
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To: RobRoy

I like this analogy of the concept of eternal hell (not mine):

Suppose for a moment that a wonderful man—Mr. Right, if you will—offers a marriage proposal to the woman he loves. “Marry me,” he says, “and I will give you a life like you’ve never dreamed of before. You will be loved with the greatest commitment and passion that any woman has ever known. I will give you the finest house with all of the wonderful things you’ve ever wanted, and you will be happy for the rest of your days!”


That sounds like it was wrote by some one who has read just enough of the Bible to not even know what it is all about, but did not like the little bit they read.


169 posted on 03/12/2011 1:26:38 AM PST by ravenwolf (Just a bit of the long list of proofs)
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