Posted on 02/01/2011 12:52:59 PM PST by RnMomof7
A vial containing blood drawn from Pope John Paul II shortly before he died will be installed as a relic in a Polish church soon after his beatification later this year, an official said Monday. Piotr Sionko, the spokesman for the John Paul II Center, said the vial will be encased in crystal and built into the altar of a church in the southern city of Krakow that is opening in May. The exact date of the opening is not yet known, but it should be shortly after John Paul's beatification at the Vatican on May 1........... "It was the cardinal's proposal," Sionko said. "He is of the opinion that this is the most precious relic of John Paul II and should be the focal point of the church." .........
"The idea of displaying the pope's relics has met with some reservations, even inside the Catholic Church. "The tradition of relics comes from medieval practices of teaching the Bible through images and symbols," said the Rev. Krzysztof Madel, a Jesuit priest in Nowy Sacz who has publicly questioned the usefulness of displaying John Paul's blood. "But in today's rationalized world the message should rather come through teaching about someone's life." After John Paul's death, some Polish officials said they hoped John Paul's heart would be removed from his body and returned to his homeland for burial. However, church officials dismissed any possibility of dismembering the body, saying the age had passed for that practice. Dziwisz said Friday that he has always been against dividing of the body, but that "relics have always existed and will always exist."
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Please let me know where your family burial plot is so I can walk my dogs in that cemetery.
As a matter of fact, he went to confession each week because he was well aware of this.
Where did you get the ridiculous idea that a canonization was a declaration of sinlessness?
Are you suggesting that by my rejection of the notion of items of this world being “holy relics” that I am defecating (or having my dog do so) on your deceased family members?
Are you suggesting that by my rejection of the notion of items of this world being “holy relics” that I am defecating (or having my dog do so) on your deceased family members?
And Prada shoes
Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
Mark 7:13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
My friend and fellow Christian. I am not here to put you down or argue about your faith. I have pondered and prayed about these things for years. My daily prayer is that I would not be deceived. I do not put faith in any man. I have put my faith in Christ alone. The churches, over the centuries, until today do not resemble, in any way shape or form, the original first century church that Christ sanctioned. Jesus presented himself as a Jew and he still is. He was not a Catholic nor a Protestant. He is sitting at the right hand of the Father and will return to receive those who love Him, follow His commandments and know Him and walk humbly with Him. The forces of deception are everywhere and wide is the path... personally I take my refuge in Him alone.
Cemeteries are normally considered hallowed ground due to the human remains that are present. For example, Arlington cemetery, is often referred to as hallowed ground, and PBS did a documentary about US vetreran cemeteries overseas that was called “Hallowed Grounds”.
Hallowed means “holy”. Worthy of respect and reverence. That is how civilized people have treated human remains from time immemorial.
My comments bluntly drew attention to your comments that bluntly indicated you reject that time-honored notion.
What on earth are you talking about?
The official teaching of the Church cites the 10 commandments, and as its primary citation of the 10 commandments, it provides the reader ENTIRE text from Exodus 20: 2-17.
You know, the text you falsely claimed is not taught by Catholics (because you obviously did not even review the content of the link you proivided because you got so excited about condemning the Church that you stepped all over yourself)?
“You shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself a graven image,
or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above,
or that is in the earth beneath,
or that is in the water under the earth;
you shall not bow down to them or serve them;
for I the LORD your God am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers
upon the children to the third and the fourth
generation of those who hate me,
but showing steadfast love to thousands of those
who love me and keep my commandments.”
I believe the MAN was worthy of respect and reverence. His blood is just dessicated erythrocytes. You can show it reverence if you so wish.
I will refer to imparting material objects of this world with transcendent traits as “Holiness”, and imparting to them the properties of being a gateway of miraculous intercession, as half silly superstition and half bad theology.
Saint Alphonso needn't have his toenail prayed to before he will put in a good word to God on your behalf, I would humbly suggest.
Other people may well have other opinions.
“needn’t”
is the operative word
that is where you diverged into a la-la-land that the Church does not occupy
The Church has never taught that one needs to have a relic in order to ask for the prayers of a saint.
First and foremost, the Church requires that we pray to God directly (for that is what is done at Mass, and attendance at Mass is how we normally MUST observe the commandment to keep holy the sabbath).
The Church does not insist that one make use of relics. The Church does not insist that one privately ask the saints for their prayers.
The Church permits relics as an aid to the faithful, and where they are a hindrance to the faithful, the Church will step in to correct that.
metmom, my half-jocular remark was, as I said before, regarding the fact that the poster used an AP article. Whether the subject is the Catholic Church or abortion or Yoyobama, you’re certain to get an altered, only semi-literate piece of work, at best. There is no quality at AP any longer.
“Even without the little addition of their commentary on the pope’s heart and discussion of relics, which anyone can see is not relevant to the issue, the essentials of the story are the same.”
Actually, since that’s what the whole story’s about, yes, it most certainly DOES have relevance. It’s the crux (yes, I intended that) of the story.
Yet adherents for long centuries have thought the toenail of a Saint, if not a necessity, was certainly a couple steps closer, to having your prayers heard and answered.
Those who traveled many long miles to pray to a relic certainly thought the efficacy of their prayers at home insufficient. And the many miracles attributed to a relic seemed to substantiate that belief.
Yet adherents for long centuries have thought the toenail of a Saint, if not a necessity, was certainly a couple steps closer, to having your prayers heard and answered.
Those who traveled many long miles to pray to a relic certainly thought the efficacy of their prayers at home insufficient. And the many miracles attributed to a relic seemed to substantiate that belief.
What empty worlds you (collective noun) linger in.
They misunderstand do not let it get to you. They know not what they do. forgive. The enemy can take a foothold with us. Blessed are you when they speak evil of you. Praise Jesus!
Exodus 25:22 There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are upon the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you of all that I will give you in commandment for the people of Israel. [carved statues on the ark of the covenant]
Exodus 30:6 And you shall put it before the veil that is by the ark of the testimony, before the mercy seat that is over the testimony, where I will meet with you. (cf. Lev 16:2) [mercy seat on the ark of the covenant]
Numbers 7:89 And when Moses went into the tent of meeting to speak with the LORD, he heard the voice speaking to him from above the mercy seat that was upon the ark of the testimony, from between the two cherubim; and it spoke to him. (cf. 1 Sam 4:4; 2 Sam 6:2; 2 Ki 19:15; 1 Chron 13:6; Ps 80:1; 99:1; Is 37:16; Ezek 10:4; Heb 9:5) [carved statues on the ark of the covenant]
Deuteronomy 10:8 At that time the LORD set apart the tribe of Levi to carry the ark of the covenant of the LORD, to stand before the LORD to minister to him and to bless in his name, to this day. (cf. 1 Ki 3:15; 8:5; 2 Chron 5:6) [ark of the covenant]
Joshua 7:6-8 Then Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the LORD until the evening, he and the elders of Israel; and they put dust upon their heads. And Joshua said, “Alas, O Lord GOD, why hast thou brought this people over the Jordan at all, to give us into the hands of the Amorites, to destroy us? Would that we had been content to dwell beyond the Jordan! [8] O Lord, what can I say, when Israel has turned their backs before their enemies! [ark of the covenant]
1 Kings 6:23-35 In the inner sanctuary he made two cherubim of olivewood, each ten cubits high. [24] Five cubits was the length of one wing of the cherub, and five cubits the length of the other wing of the cherub; it was ten cubits from the tip of one wing to the tip of the other.
[25] The other cherub also measured ten cubits; both cherubim had the same measure and the same form. [26] The height of one cherub was ten cubits, and so was that of the other cherub. [27] He put the cherubim in the innermost part of the house; and the wings of the cherubim were spread out so that a wing of one touched the one wall, and a wing of the other cherub touched the other wall; their other wings touched each other in the middle of the house. [28] And he overlaid the cherubim with gold. [29] He carved all the walls of the house round about with carved figures of cherubim and palm trees and open flowers, in the inner and outer rooms. [30] The floor of the house he overlaid with gold in the inner and outer rooms. [31] For the entrance to the inner sanctuary he made doors of olivewood; the lintel and the doorposts formed a pentagon. [32] He covered the two doors of olivewood with carvings of cherubim, palm trees, and open flowers; he overlaid them with gold, and spread gold upon the cherubim and upon the palm trees. [33] So also he made for the entrance to the nave doorposts of olivewood, in the form of a square, [34] and two doors of cypress wood; the two leaves of the one door were folding, and the two leaves of the other door were folding. [35] On them he carved cherubim and palm trees and open flowers; and he overlaid them with gold evenly applied upon the carved work. [people prayed to God toward or in the temple and the walls included carved figures of angels]
1 Kings 8:22 Then Solomon stood before the altar of the LORD in the presence of all the assembly of Israel, and spread forth his hands toward heaven; [altar]
1 Kings 8:44,48 If thy people go out to battle against their enemy, by whatever way thou shalt send them, and they pray to the LORD toward the city which thou hast chosen and the house which I have built for thy name, . . . [48] if they repent with all their mind and with all their heart in the land of their enemies, who carried them captive, and pray to thee toward their land, which thou gavest to their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name; (cf. 2 Chron 6:34,38) [Jerusalem and the Holy Land]
1 Kings 8:54 Now as Solomon finished offering all this prayer and supplication to the LORD, he arose from before the altar of the LORD, where he had knelt with hands outstretched toward heaven; [altar]
1 Kings 18:42 . . . And Eli’jah went up to the top of Carmel; and he bowed himself down upon the earth, and put his face between his knees. [Mt. Carmel]
1 Chronicles 16:4 Moreover he appointed certain of the Levites as ministers before the ark of the LORD, to invoke, to thank, and to praise the LORD, the God of Israel. [ark of the covenant]
1 Chronicles 16:29 Ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name; bring an offering, and come before him! Worship the LORD in holy array; [clothes, altar]
2 Chronicles 3:7 So he lined the house with gold — its beams, its thresholds, its walls, and its doors; and he carved cherubim on the walls. (cf. Ezek 41:20,25) [people prayed to God toward or in the temple and the walls included carved figures of angels]
2 Chronicles 6:12-14 Then Solomon stood before the altar of the LORD in the presence of all the assembly of Israel, and spread forth his hands. [13] Solomon had made a bronze platform five cubits long, five cubits wide, and three cubits high, and had set it in the court; and he stood upon it. Then he knelt upon his knees in the presence of all the assembly of Israel, and spread forth his hands toward heaven; [14] and said, “O LORD, God of Israel, there is no God like thee, in heaven or on earth, keeping covenant and showing steadfast love to thy servants who walk before thee with all their heart;” [altar and bronze platform in temple]
2 Chronicles 6:20 that thou mayest hearken to the prayer which thy servant offers toward this place. [temple]
2 Chronicles 6:21 And hearken thou to the supplications of thy servant and of thy people Israel, when they pray toward this place; yea, hear thou from heaven thy dwelling place; and when thou hearest, forgive. [temple]
2 Chronicles 6:22 If a man sins against his neighbor and is made to take an oath, and comes and swears his oath before thy altar in this house, [altar]
2 Chronicles 6:26-27 When heaven is shut up and there is no rain because they have sinned against thee, if they pray toward this place, and acknowledge thy name, and turn from their sin, when thou dost afflict them, [27] then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thy servants, thy people Israel, when thou dost teach them the good way in which they should walk; and grant rain upon thy land, which thou hast given to thy people as an inheritance. [temple]
2 Chronicles 6:29-30 whatever prayer, whatever supplication is made by any man or by all thy people Israel, each knowing his own affliction, and his own sorrow and stretching out his hands toward this house; [30] then hear thou from heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and render to each whose heart thou knowest, according to all his ways (for thou, thou only, knowest the hearts of the children of men); [temple]
2 Chronicles 6:32-33 Likewise when a foreigner, who is not of thy people Israel, comes from a far country for the sake of thy great name, and thy mighty hand, and thy outstretched arm, when he comes and prays toward this house, [33] hear thou from heaven thy dwelling place, (cf. 1 Ki 29-30,35,42) [temple]
2 Chronicles 7:3 When all the children of Israel saw the fire come down and the glory of the LORD upon the temple, they bowed down with their faces to the earth on the pavement, and worshiped and gave thanks to the LORD, saying, “For he is good, for his steadfast love endures for ever.” [fire, temple]
Psalm 5:7 But I through the abundance of thy steadfast love will enter thy house, I will worship toward thy holy temple in the fear of thee. [temple]
Psalm 28:2 Hear the voice of my supplication, as I cry to thee for help, as I lift up my hands toward thy most holy sanctuary. [sanctuary]
Psalm 29:2 Ascribe to the LORD the glory of his name; worship the LORD in holy array. [clothes]
Psalm 96:9 Worship the LORD in holy array; tremble before him, all the earth! [clothes]
Psalm 99:9 Extol the LORD our God, and worship at his holy mountain; for the LORD our God is holy! [temple]
Psalm 134:2 Lift up your hands to the holy place, and bless the LORD! [temple]
Psalm 138:2 I bow down toward thy holy temple and give thanks to thy name for thy steadfast love and thy faithfulness; for thou hast exalted above everything thy name and thy word. [temple]
Isaiah 27:13 those who were driven out to the land of Egypt will come and worship the LORD on the holy mountain at Jerusalem. [temple]
Ezekiel 46:3 The people of the land shall worship at the entrance of that gate before the LORD on the sabbaths and on the new moons. [gate]
Daniel 6:10 When Daniel knew that the document had been signed, he went to his house where he had windows in his upper chamber open toward Jerusalem; and he got down upon his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as he had done previously. [Jerusalem]
Romans 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. [bodies of Christians]
Philippians 1:20 as it is my eager expectation and hope that I shall not be at all ashamed, but that with full courage now as always Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or by death. [St. Paul’s own body]
Revelation 4:10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who is seated on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever; they cast their crowns before the throne, singing, [God’s throne, crowns]
Revelation 7:11 And all the angels stood round the throne and round the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, [God’s throne]
Revelation 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; [altar in heaven]
Objects related to God( carved too) http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2009/04/biblical-evidence-for-physical-objects.html
Creepy.
Superstition and veneration of wood and blood and teeth is idolatry; nothing else.
And the ONLY blood that matters to any Christian is the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.” — Ezekiel 22:25-27 “There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
For our reading pleasure, here is the abbreviated version of...
It did the same thing with the apostles, martyrs, and other saints, and, instead of observing their lives in order to imitate their examples, it directed all its attention to the preservation and admiration of their bones, shirts, sashes, caps, and other similar trash...""...Now, the origin and root of this evil, has been, that, instead of discerning Jesus Christ in his Word, his Sacraments, and his Spiritual Graces, the world has, according to its ‘custom, amused itself with his clothes, shirts, and sheets, leaving thus the principal to follow the accessory.
"Trash." Nothing more.
Its not surprising that some would profane the Holy by projecting their own anti-Catholic motivations.
Catholics believe that the bodies of the saints as formerly temples of the Holy Ghost are destined hereafter to be eternally glorified. The practice of venerating relics is as old as the church itself. When St. John the Baptist was martyred, his remains were recovered by his followers and taken to be buried in a safe place where they could be honored. After St. Polycarp was burned at the stake for his religious views his burned bones were gathered and placed in a tomb where his followers gathered to celebrate Mass and the life of their martyred pastor. As Saint Jerome declared, "We do not worship, we do not adore, for fear that we should bow down to the creature rather than to the creator, but we venerate the relics of the martyrs in order the better to adore him whose martyrs they are."
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