Posted on 01/23/2011 5:12:54 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas
Did Martin Luther Act Infallibly in Defining What Books Belong in the Bible?
If Luther did not act infallibly:
- How can Protestants be certain that they have an infallible collection of Books in Holy Scripture?
- How can the Bible be the sole rule of faith, if no one knows with certainty which books belong in the Bible?
If Luther acted infallibly:
- How do you know?
fruit of the Reformation? LDS, JW, SDA, Oneness, CS, etc, etc.
Read John 17 and 1 Corinthians 1 and tell me if the Reformation was from God.
in other words, you follow Sacred Catholic Tradition!
“The decree of the Council of Trent regarding the canon of Scripture is unambiguous.”
Regarding the canon, Trent was unambiguous. On the question of the value of the Apocrypha for doctrine, Trent deliberately chose to remain ambiguous, and not to answer the question.
“If one accepts Luther’s canon, then one has certainly accepted Luther’s infallibility and authority, i.e. a pope.”
Utterly false. If I accept Rush Limbaugh’s statement on anything, have I made him my Pope? To agree with an argument is not to suggest the person making an argument is infallible.
You miss the point. Protestants believe the canon belongs to the Holy Spirit - that it is God’s Word, not some church’s word.
“Now, many will use the early Fathers and Doctors to support their protestantism, saying well Jerome said this and Augustine said that. But, neither, in fact, none of them, were pope and had not the authority, the keys, as given to Peter and passed to his successors, to bind or loose.”
Umm...there is no scriptural support for the idea that the keys given Peter were anything other than opening the kingdom to the Jews at Pentecost, and the Gentiles with Cornelius. There is scriptural evidence that Peter’s successors had no authority, other than to rely on what is more sure - the prophetic revelation of God.
As Peter put it, “For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”
And why rely on the word? Because, as Peter explains immediately afterword: “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words...”
Yet Peter doesn’t tell them to rely on His Successors, the Bishops of Rome and Vicars of Christ, but “the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place”.
dear sir, without the Catholic Church receiving the original books and hand copying them for 1,500 years ( thank a monk next time you see one! ) you would have no Bible and in all likelihood, would be a pagan.
“dear sir, without the Catholic Church receiving the original books and hand copying them for 1,500 years ( thank a monk next time you see one! ) you would have no Bible and in all likelihood, would be a pagan.”
You mean hiding them and keeping them from people, refusing to allow any but selected individuals to read them.
salvation depends on being “in Christ”. you are placed “in Christ” by baptism, when your sins are washed away and you receive the Holy Spirit. at least this is what the Christian Church has taught for 2,000 years, i know that doesn’t count for much these days!
I'll find no fault with any tradition of any church that finds support in scripture. I'll refute any tradition of any church that goes against it.
**Salvation depends on acceptance of Jesus as the Son of God.**
Good grief, what do you think Catholics do? Of course we partake in a lot more worship of Christ in the Mass. I forget..........
“In light of the many Anglican/Episcopalian clergy and laity currently converting to Catholicism it might be difficult to justify your position. “
Why? Fools have behaved foolishly for years, and will do so until the end of time.
“Vickey Jean Robinson followed by kathy Schori or Jimmy Swagart or Amy Semple McPherson”
I’ve heard of two of them, and never followed any of them - so why should I apologize for them? You might as well ask me to apologize for the actions of Mao, whom I also had nothing to do with.
hiding them? LOL! attend Mass and you will hear practically the entire Bible read in a three year period. they sure went to a lot of trouble to copy and preserve the Word, if they were trying to hide them. wouldn’t it have been easier to order no more copies made? such nonsense!
you do agree the Church was given the authority to teach in Matthew 28 and scripture is not supposed to be privately interpreted against doctrines taught by the Church?
Fruit of the RCC? Voodoo, Santeria, Candoble, etc, etc.
“salvation depends on being “in Christ”. you are placed “in Christ” by baptism, “
Not according to Jesus words as written in the Bible, perhaps your source is better?
Baptism is a profession of faith which occurs AFTER salvation.
where is the canon of Scripture contained in Scripture? there was no need, because Jesus left a Church, His Body, the pillar of truth.
“i’ll refute any tradition of any church that goes against it” now that is Catholic doctrine!
>> “Baptism is a profession of faith which occurs AFTER salvation.” <<
.
Amen!
.
” I cited the primary text, the actual text of the Council of Trent, which is unambiguous regarding the Canon of Scripture. It is this text which the Church regards as infallible teaching.”
The decision at Trent was what books were included. They refused to discuss if those books had equal value, or if some were only good for reading but not for doctrine. The Council of Trent punted.
And since ALL scripture “is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting...”, it effectively leaves open the question of the actual scriptural status of the Apocrypha. Because if it cannot be used for teaching, rebuking and correction, it isn’t scripture.
“But all of this begs the question, What authority did Luther have to determine the canon of Scripture? Can his canon be disputed? And if so, how can “the Bible alone” be the “sole rule of faith,” if the canon of Scripture is controvertible?”
Luther cannot determine the canon of scripture. The Holy Spirit owns scripture, and it is up to us to follow Him to the best of our ability.
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me...When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you...”
I have never met a Protestant who thought Luther was infallible. The scriptures belong, not to the Catholic Church, not to the Pope, and not to Luther, but to God.
Ridiculous. Schisms and heresies are part of entire church history from the time of the Apostles. To single out these from and try to apply them to the Reformation is pure ignorance.
Yes, the Catholic church may have given us the Bible, but the Roman Catholic church did not. I’m sure the Eastern Orthodox and Oriential churches would strongly object to that.
no, these are examples of other groups who don’t believe in the “One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church”
“Good grief, what do you think Catholics do? Of course we partake in a lot more worship of Christ in the Mass. I forget..........”
Just responding to incorrect statements as to salvation. ya know that whole thing about false teachers thats in the Bible right?
You guys would do well to follow it, then.
You guys would do well to follow it, then.
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