The Not So Secret Rapture

reformed.org ^ | W. Fred Rice

[topcat54]

Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.

[Religion Moderator]

Here's another example: a poster quotes the Bible as saying that "Noone comes to the Father except through Jesus," and another poster says "Waaah! That condemns me to hell and insults my dearly beloved ancestors - make him stop."

My reply would be much the same: "If the Bible quote offends you then you are "taking it personally" and should stay away from the "open" Religion Forum threads. You are welcome to start your own Oprah Winfrey school of theology caucus."

BTW "She's using it to" is attributing motive, which is making it personal.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for sharing your concerns, dear brother in Christ!

The contention does not bother me because the open Religion Forum threads are the only venues antis have to speak up.

[metmom]

LOL!!!

[Cronos]

Of course, I’m attributing motive — look at the post this was responded to — is the biblical quote in context to that as a teaching? No. This is someone wanting to call another person an insult and finessing the rules to do this. And you allow personal insults slyly hid in this way?

[metmom]

Yes, your posts are hardly original.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cronos]

And, since we're giving free advice, here's one from me --> find out what your Presbyterian posters here think of your Pentecostal beliefs.

Hint --> they've already clearly stated that they consider you Pentecostals the same as Catholics, they already have it as their doctrines that Pentecostals follow a "damnable heresy" and that Pentecostals are in " a very serious error.

In essence it is a result of a failure to grasp the Biblical teaching concerning the history of salvation."

In fact, not only have the Presbyterians here called the Methodist and Pentecostal and Baptist arminian preachers as heretics, preaching a damnable heresy, but at other times have said they teach the gospel of Satan.

you have Dr. Eck dissing the LCMS: "The liberal church teaching of free will has infected the Lutherans, too, in contradiction to what Martin Luther taught from Scripture"

The Presbyterians really hate the guts of anyone who does not toe the Calvinist line and say that Calvinism = Christianity, that's what they believe and repeat saying "Calvinism is the Gospel and to teach Calvinism is in fact to preach the Gospel." Arthur C. Custance, The Sovereignty of Grace, 1979. and "Calvinism is evangelicalism in its purest and only stable expression." B.B. Warfield, Calvin and Augustine, ed. Samuel G. Craig, 1956.

The Presbyterians hate you Lutherans, Pentecostals, Methodists etc. as much as they hate Catholics/Orthodox and it's obvious in their posts that they initially hide it, but the bile comes out.

you don't even have to just check their posts, read their doctrinal websites that post the same thing calling you'll "damnable heretics" and "They are serious perversions of the gospel of Jesus Christ."

[Cronos]

Here's another link from the OPC nonetheless! Talking about the ESCHATOLOGY OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

Whatever else the Calvinists may have wrong, at least they believe that Jesus Christ is God

Did you read the Biblical quotes on this I gave you? Do you need any more?

[xone]

AFAIK, xzins, while no doubt learned, is not Lutheran. Luther if he believed in double predestination, never taught it and it isn't, as has been shown, part of the Lutheran Confessions. Luther was Catholic, and as a result held Catholics beliefs like PV which also in the light of Scriptures didn't make it into the Lutheran Confessions.

From Cronos' link it is apparent that the Confessional Lutherans that hold the election/predestination of the saints, don't hold to the idea of predestination of the damned. Following Cronos' link after (1 Tim 2:3-4) we find: "Like so many teachings of Scripture (e.g., the Trinity, eternity, the two natures of Christ, the love of a holy God for rebellious sinners), this teaching seems contradictory and is incomprehensible to human reason. We believe it not because it "makes sense" to human reason, but because this is what we find taught in the pages of God's holy Word." LCMS.org

There are better Lutheran apologists aboard FR than I, more likely all the Confessional Lutherans are better at it than I am. Perhaps the reason they avoid these types of disagreements is that they know that no minds will change. As one of them said, "Lutherans are between Rome and Geneva, and always will be." or some such paraphrase. But I believe the chief reason these discussions are avoided is that there is little Gospel light radiating from the discussion.

So to answer the questions, yes I know that Dr Eckleburg will disagree with me, she should as she is a Calvinist. And no Cronos it doesn't bother me.

[xone]

The Presbyterians really hate the guts of anyone who does not toe the Calvinist line and say that Calvinism = Christianity, that's what they believe and repeat saying "Calvinism is the Gospel and to teach Calvinism is in fact to preach the Gospel." Arthur C. Custance, The Sovereignty of Grace, 1979. and "Calvinism is evangelicalism in its purest and only stable expression." B.B. Warfield, Calvin and Augustine, ed. Samuel G. Craig, 1956. The Presbyterians hate you Lutherans, Pentecostals, Methodists etc. as much as they hate Catholics/Orthodox and it's obvious in their posts that they initially hide it, but the bile comes out.

You really should calm down, you have a bad case of Presbyterianitis. As one anathemized by Rome at Trent, we are used to this.

[HossB86]

“Exactly what do you think the “original topic” of this thread is (or more accurately was)? And who do you think “deflected” it?”

Ooooookayyyyyy......

Hmm. Discussion of the Rapture, versus trying to stir up trouble among Protestants? And you’re asking me who deflected what? Wow.

Riiight.

Hoss

[Belteshazzar]

xone wrote:
“There are better Lutheran apologists aboard FR than I, more likely all the Confessional Lutherans are better at it than I am. Perhaps the reason they avoid these types of disagreements is that they know that no minds will change. As one of them said, “Lutherans are between Rome and Geneva, and always will be.” or some such paraphrase. But I believe the chief reason these discussions are avoided is that there is little Gospel light radiating from the discussion.”

Well said, xone, and exactly right ... especially the last sentence.

[HossB86]

“Here’s another link from the OPC nonetheless! Talking about the ESCHATOLOGY OF JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES”

‘nonetheless’ — well, at least you’re predictable.

Are you saying that metmom and I are Jehovah’s Witnesses? I’m not, if that makes you feel any better. If so, how do you know about mm? I’m not sure if I’ve ever disclosed anything as to my personal info, not sure about mm...

so... so what?

Hoss

[HossB86]

“Here’s another link from the OPC nonetheless! Talking about the ESCHATOLOGY OF JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES”

‘nonetheless’ — well, at least you’re predictable.

Are you saying that metmom and I are Jehovah’s Witnesses? I’m not, if that makes you feel any better. If so, how do you know about mm? I’m not sure if I’ve ever disclosed anything as to my personal info, not sure about mm...

so... so what?

Hoss

[topcat54]

That's a good point. This thread started off so nicely until post 8. It ostensibly has no bearing on orthodoxy as orthodoxy has no doctrine on the "Rapture".

Frankly, I’m amazed that such a non-controversial subject as the OP could have reached 3000+ posts. :-)

[xone]

So you saying you’re better than me!

[metmom]

Are you saying that metmom and I are Jehovah’s Witnesses? I’m not, if that makes you feel any better. If so, how do you know about mm? I’m not sure if I’ve ever disclosed anything as to my personal info, not sure about mm...

No, I haven't. But finding out personal information by the process of elimination is still finding out personal information.

My posts are clear enough about what I believe that he can answer that question himself.

Here's a source to help him find it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:metmom/index?tab=comments;brevity=full;options=no-change

Good luck......

[Alamo-Girl]

It's all the sidebars. LOLOL!

[Quix]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Evidently you think that discussing Christianity should have

SOMETHING to do with discussing

THE GOSPEL

and spreading the GOSPEL LIGHT.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Please let me know

when the RC’s sign-on

to that value.

[Belteshazzar]

xone wrote:
“So you saying you’re better than me!”

You made me laugh. But, for the sake of clarity, no, I not saying I be better than you ... or anyone.

[Belteshazzar]

Quix wrote:
“Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Evidently you think that discussing Christianity should have

SOMETHING to do with discussing

THE GOSPEL

and spreading the GOSPEL LIGHT.”

That would be a big thumbs up.