[xone]

AFAIK, xzins, while no doubt learned, is not Lutheran. Luther if he believed in double predestination, never taught it and it isn't, as has been shown, part of the Lutheran Confessions. Luther was Catholic, and as a result held Catholics beliefs like PV which also in the light of Scriptures didn't make it into the Lutheran Confessions.

From Cronos' link it is apparent that the Confessional Lutherans that hold the election/predestination of the saints, don't hold to the idea of predestination of the damned. Following Cronos' link after (1 Tim 2:3-4) we find: "Like so many teachings of Scripture (e.g., the Trinity, eternity, the two natures of Christ, the love of a holy God for rebellious sinners), this teaching seems contradictory and is incomprehensible to human reason. We believe it not because it "makes sense" to human reason, but because this is what we find taught in the pages of God's holy Word." LCMS.org

There are better Lutheran apologists aboard FR than I, more likely all the Confessional Lutherans are better at it than I am. Perhaps the reason they avoid these types of disagreements is that they know that no minds will change. As one of them said, "Lutherans are between Rome and Geneva, and always will be." or some such paraphrase. But I believe the chief reason these discussions are avoided is that there is little Gospel light radiating from the discussion.

So to answer the questions, yes I know that Dr Eckleburg will disagree with me, she should as she is a Calvinist. And no Cronos it doesn't bother me.

[Belteshazzar]

xone wrote:
“There are better Lutheran apologists aboard FR than I, more likely all the Confessional Lutherans are better at it than I am. Perhaps the reason they avoid these types of disagreements is that they know that no minds will change. As one of them said, “Lutherans are between Rome and Geneva, and always will be.” or some such paraphrase. But I believe the chief reason these discussions are avoided is that there is little Gospel light radiating from the discussion.”

Well said, xone, and exactly right ... especially the last sentence.

[Cronos]

Thanks for confirming that Luther never taught double predestination.