The Not So Secret Rapture

reformed.org ^ | W. Fred Rice

[topcat54]

Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

lololol

Too much tension, perhaps.

[caww]

Well it explains further what OPC is....though I haven’t been to one of their churches...and doubt I would go. Still it was interesting reading about them.

[presently no screen name]

then you just go right on and repeat this easily disputed one. How many times have you been corrected on this, yet you still say it?

It's like the liberal media - speak the propaganda long enough hoping they will be believed. It doesn't work on a conservative site but that doesn't stop them. A result of not making God's Word the Final Authority.

[boatbums]

Why don't you post some clear Trinitarian verse this time that is not quite ambiguous and has to be read into? Preferably some that weren't added several hundred years after the writer.

Nope, I've got better things to do with my time than travel down that road with you for what the fifth or sixth time now? Here is a good source if you are really serious this time:

www.layevangelism.com

[kosta50]

"Protestant theology" is Christianity

Sometimes.

Christianity says that if Christ has covered a man's sins

Christianity says Jesus died for the sins of the world. Both are objectionable.

Is this a difficult concept to understand?

Understand what? That Christianity turned OT meanings upside down and mixed Judaism with pagan religions? Not at all.

Is it Scriptural and true? Yes.

Depends what you call "scripture."

"For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more." -- Hebrews 8:12

Let's see, that a sandwich of Isaiah and Jeremiah, both of which are directed at Israel (the Jewish people). Don't you think the author of Hebrews is a bit disingenuous to suggest this was God speaking to and about Christians?!?

The redeemed still sin because we are still human. The old man is not completely dead. But by God's mercy alone, our sins have been forgiven by Christ on the cross.

Isn't that what I was saying all along? to wit: they sin but their sins count for naught! Or is it that the Evangelical crowd just loves to oppose me even when I echo their own claims?

That's fine and dandy, Dr. E., but the fact still remains that Protestants believe and teach that, since they continue to sin, no matter what sin they commit in their process of "sanctification", their salvation cannot be lost; ergo, their sins count for naught.

[Cronos]

Actually, I notice that of many OPC and such group posters who do this continuously. Do you also think that they are permanently on medication?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Well, then you then disagree with the Calvinists.

A lot of Christians disagree with Calvinists. So what? Protestants are united on what constitutes salvation - God's grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

Roman Catholics put themselves outside the historic, orthodox Christian faith by praying to a "co-redeemer" and foloowing "another Christ."

No one that I know teaches "pre-damnation." All men are called to kneel to Christ and believe in Him as Lord, God and Savior. Without Christ, all men are lost because all men are fallen. Without the free gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit, none of us would be saved.

Salvation is a free gift of grace, not of works, lest anyone boast.

Rome boasts.

[Cronos]

Yes, this is what the OPC believes:

• from opc.org --> Is Arminianism a damnable heresy? Yes
• more from opc --> It will be noted that the Confession sharply contradicts the view popularized today by the neo-Pentecostal movement.

  In essence this view would have us believe that we can have the same charismatic gifts that we read about in the age of the Apostles - such as prophecy, speaking in tongues, and healing - today.

  This is a very serious error. In essence it is a result of a failure to grasp the Biblical teaching concerning the history of salvation.

• Never again will there be an outpouring of the Holy Spirit such as took place on the day of Pentecost.
  The sending of the Holy Spirit is just as much an unrepeatable event as the birth of Christ was.

And of course they believe that Christianiy=Calvinism ONLY (they like to toss around the word only) and that Pentecostals, Methodists, Baptists etc. who follow Arminian thought are "damnable heretics"

[Cronos]

Oh, and I forgot the anti-semitic nature of the OPC too: According to the OPC OrthoPresbyterianC: "Christians should not celebrate the Seder or other Jewish festivals. "

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Say, didn't you write that "That's Christianity, That's Calvinism".

REmember Calvinists are not all Protestants

Let's see if you are capable of following this logic...

I have a Ford Explorer. A Ford Explorer is a car.

Are all cars Ford Explorers?

Were you able to follow that?

Do you believe Roman Catholicism is Christianity? I believe Calvinism is Christianity. I likewise believe Lutheranism, Congregationalism, Baptistism, Pentecostalism, Anglicanism, Methodism and Presbyterianism are all Christianity.

Roman Catholicism, not so much, as revealed by its anti-Scriptural errors.

[Cronos]

Dr. e: A lot of Christians disagree with Calvinists. So what?

The OrthodoPresbyeterian Cer think they are damnable heretics.

The Calvinists say "That's Christianity. That's Calvinism"

They also say that Methodists and Pentecostals are following the gospel of Satan.

Seems like the OPC really hates Pentecostals, Lutherans, Methodists etc as it beleives they are damnable heretics and that they follow the gospel of Satan.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Do you think Christians should celebrate Jewish festivals?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Your posting now as caww described.

Perhaps you need sleep.

[Cronos]

Kosta: but the fact still remains that Protestants Calvinists believe and teach that, since they continue to sin, no matter what sin they commit in their process of "sanctification", their salvation cannot be lost; ergo, their sins count for naught.

Do note Kosta, this is a purely Calvinist philosophy that they can keep sinning more and more to get more grace and that they are the Brahmin caste and can keep sinning as they are the elect-caste

[aruanan]

And of course they believe that Christianiy=Calvinism ONLY (they like to toss around the word only) and that Pentecostals, Methodists, Baptists etc. who follow Arminian thought are "damnable heretics"

As though there was anyone in the world on his own (though by appointment of God to that position or condition) who was not a "damnable heretic."

[Cronos]

So, as an OPCer, do you believe, as the OPC doctrines state that

Are Arminian preachers heretics? ,

Is Arminianism a damnable heresy?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Thanks again.

http://www.opc.org

[Cronos]

You're welcome, And some more doctrines of the OPC

Salvation of Infants Who Die

The Confession entertains the idea that at least some infants who die in infancy and some others "who are incapable of being outwardly called" are among the elect.

However, the Confession does not say that all such infants, etc., are saved.

The OPC believes that God pre-damns infants to eternal hell. This isn't the Christian God of Love.

[Cronos]

And, your group's non-scriptural belief in double-predestination goes against the CAlvinist's favorite Early Christian, Augustine

Augustinian predestinationalism.

Calvinists get this wrong. The idea that a person can be predestined to come to God yet not be predestined to stay the course may be new to Calvinists and may sound strange to them, but it did not sound strange to Augustine, he did not draw Calvin's inference that all who are ever saved are predestined to remain in grace.

While Calvin's view of predestination might be a variation of Augustine's view, the two are not the same.

Augustine did not believe in Calvin's understanding of the "perseverance of the saints," and neither did the broadly Augustinian tradition. That understanding was new with Calvin.

In 1748 the Church declared Thomism, Molinism, and a third view known as Augustinianism to be acceptable Catholic teachings

Augustine

"[N]othing could have been devised more likely to instruct and benefit the pious reader of sacred Scripture than that, besides describing praiseworthy characters as examples, and blameworthy characters as warnings, it should also narrate cases where good men have gone back and fallen into evil, whether they are restored to the right path or continue irreclaimable; and also where bad men have changed, and have attained to goodness, whether they persevere in it or relapse into evil; in order that the righteous may be not lifted up in the pride of security, nor the wicked hardened in despair of cure" (Against Faustus 22:96 [A.D. 400]).

Remember also that Augustine rejected any notion of an invisible Church and believed in sacraments (Augustine too believed that Christ was really present in the Eucharist)