The Not So Secret Rapture

reformed.org ^ | W. Fred Rice

[topcat54]

Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.

[presently no screen name]

repentance is still necessary in the Christian world for our non-venial sins. We are not Calvinists to believe that we should not repent.....Yes, that is correct, all of it.

non-venial sins? LOL! Sin is sin - obviously, though not according to man made teachings but to GOD, sin is sin. Guilty of one, guilty of all. No plea bargains, no probation in His Kingdom!

[kosta50]

non-venial sins? LOL! Sin is sin - obviously, though not according to man made teachings but to GOD, sin is sin. Guilty of one, guilty of all.

Not in Protestant Christianity. Once you become a Proddy, sin counts for naught. Talk about man made teahcings... :)

[presently no screen name]

Not in Protestant Christianity. Once you become a Proddy, sin counts for naught. Talk about man made teahcings... :)

That's according to 'the man without The Spirit' understanding!

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he CANNOT UNDERSTAND them, because they are spiritually discerned".

[Lera]

The Church was not persecuting. They did their best to convince them to return to the Faith because the Church was afraid for their very souls. What lengths would you go to to stop another from going over to satan?

---

So by this reasoning the Catholic Church killed them to save them from losing their souls only by killing them they ensured their damnation if they really thought they were heretics.

BIBLE BELIEVING Christians pray for those that they see are heading to damnation they DON’T kill them to make sure they are damned . Oh and many BIBLE BELIEVING Christians also spend hours trying to point out to those they think are in err and in danger of being damned the error of their ways on threads just like this. You see the difference is BIBLE BELIEVING Christians don’t think like the world does.

Oh and BIBLE BELIEVING Christians don’t force conversions either because if you don’t come and surrender your life to Christ willingly your NOT one.

John:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

[Cronos]

Lev 5:1-4 describes sacrifices for wilful sins. Yes, some exceptions are wilful but most are not.

True -- however, Original Sin or Original Stain as I prefer to call it is NOT a wilful sin.

Cronos: Also, the sacrifice of Christ IS for unwitting sin (Adam's) -- repentence is still necessary in the Christian world for our non-venial sins. We are not Calvinists to believe that we should not repent.
Kosta: I am glad you noticed that. The Protestants seem to compeltely miss that point

Yes -- and that's a very good point, God asks us to repent for our wilful sins, He tells us to do penance for these wilful sins. The sins that were NOT wilful, there had to be a sacrifice.

So the idea in the OT was, to put it in bad English "you do bad, you do penance. If you don't know you have "bad" stain, then a sacrifice is necessary"

This of course is translated into NT-speak as "If you sin, you must do penance, but the major sin, the Original one, so to speak, that needed a sacrifice. This was a sin of the highest nature and it needed a sacrifice of the highest nature, namely Christ.

[Cronos]

Btw, Kosta, how do you like Lera saying that the Georgian Orthodox Seminary in Tiflis was supposedly run by Jesuits! :o

I didn't know Jesusits now set up Orthodox seminaries!!! :-P

[count-your-change]

Mark may be looking for that Scripture that says shake the dust off your feet and then kill them all.
It will take a while.

[kosta50]

That's according to 'the man without The Spirit' understanding!

So why do you post to me? Just so you can tell me that I am a man without the Spirit's understanding? Are you bored?

Fact is, Protestants believe their sins count for naught. They are saved and nothing can change that.

[kosta50]

Btw, Kosta, how do you like Lera saying that the Georgian Orthodox Seminary in Tiflis was supposedly run by Jesuits! :o

I didn't know Jesusits now set up Orthodox seminaries!!! :-P

I saw that in passing and just went "Oy!" and shrugged my shoulders. I suppose the Orthodox and Catholic Churches are a loot closer than we thought, huh? :) LOL!

[kosta50]

loot = lot

[kosta50]

The Apostolic Church always saw Christ's sacrifice as liberating mankind from the bondage of the ancestral sin, an unwitting trap—a pit into which Adam and Eve fell and trapped all their descendents—in the form of obligate death. Christ broke the gates of hell and defeated death, theater liberating mankind of its hold.

But man still remains responsible for his own sins and can, ultimately, be lost because of them unless he repents. The participation in the life of the Church is geared towards repentance and spiritual healing through sacraments.

Thus, the Church accurately inherited the concept of sacrificial necessity for unwitting sins and retained the necessity of active repentance for willfully committed sins.

The Protestants, on the other hand, created a man-friendly theology according to which one's own sins count for naught once you declare your faith in Christ.

[presently no screen name]

Just so you can tell me that I am a man without the Spirit's understanding?

Not me, but God through HIS WORD.

Fact is, Protestants believe their sins count for naught. They are saved and nothing can change that.

Since it's not a fact, it's already changed. Without the SPIRIT, a man only thinks he knows about God's Word. God knows what is NEEDED to understand HIS Word. But prideful man 'thinks' he can accomplish what God says he can't.

[aruanan]

The Protestants, on the other hand, created a man-friendly theology according to which one's own sins count for naught once you declare your faith in Christ.

Or, in the case of Calvinists, your sins, if they can still even be called that without abusing language, preordained by God in kind, in number, and in extent, count for nothing if you're one of the elect and count for everything if you're not, though it's neither a man nor God-friendly theology.

[Cronos]

uhuh, Dr. E, becoming personal is quite typical when one can't answer a question

Remember you were warned in post #2001 and your post #2168 was pulled.

[Cronos]

uhuh, Dr. E, becoming personal " your idiotic comments "

Remember you were warned in post #2001 and your post #2168 was pulled.

[aruanan]

Without the SPIRIT, a man only thinks he knows about God's Word. God knows what is NEEDED to understand HIS Word. But prideful man 'thinks' he can accomplish what God says he can't.

Of course, if you're talking from a Calvinist perspective then such words as "think" and "prideful" and "accomplish" are devoid of meaning when used to describe man since both he and they are the products of but a single will. If you're talking from a Christian perspective, then anyone can understand God's word sufficiently to come to salvation since the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.

[kosta50]

Nonsense.

[kosta50]

Or, in the case of Calvinists, your sins, if they can still even be called that without abusing language, preordained by God in kind, in number, and in extent, count for nothing if you're one of the elect and count for everything if you're not, though it's neither a man nor God-friendly theology.

Yes, exactly. But some of these zealots will post to me just so they can then say (no matter what I say) "you have no spirit". Childish.

[presently no screen name]

Nonsense.

To a man without the Spirit only. "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are FOOLISHNESS to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[kosta50]

More nonsense. It is unrelated to my posts. Are you bored?