Happy excommunication dayMartin Luther excommunicated

This Day in History ^ | 01/03/2011 | not stated

[RnMomof7]

On January 3, 1521, Pope Leo X issues the papal bull Decet Romanum Pontificem, which excommunicates Martin Luther from the Catholic Church.

Martin Luther, the chief catalyst of Protestantism, was a professor of biblical interpretation at the University of Wittenberg in Germany when he drew up his 95 theses condemning the Catholic Church for its corrupt practice of selling indulgences, or the forgiveness of sins. He followed up the revolutionary work with equally controversial and groundbreaking theological works, and his fiery words set off religious reformers all across Europe.

In January 1521, Pope Leo X excommunicated Luther. Three months later, Luther was called to defend his beliefs before Holy Roman Emperor Charles V at the Diet of Worms, where he was famously defiant. For his refusal to recant his writings, the emperor declared him an outlaw and a heretic. Luther was protected by powerful German princes, however, and by his death in 1546, the course of Western civilization had been significantly altered.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

I believe Jesus’s prayer in John 17:20-21 was answered, don’t you? Apparently not, since you are not one with The Church.

[Salvation]

And just think -- before he died, he said the Catholics were right!

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists
that they have the Word of God,
that we received it from them,
and that without them
we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther

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THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: ON READING THE BIBLE [Catholic Caucus]

Because I Love the Bible
Where Is That Taught in the Bible?
When Was the Bible Really Written?
Three Reasons for Teaching the Bible [St. Thomas Aquinas]
The Smiting Is Still Implied (God of the OT vs the NT)
Where Is That Taught in the Bible?
Friday Fast Fact: The Bible in English
Bible Reading is Central in Conversions to Catholicism in Shangai, Reports Organization
Verses (in Scripture) I Never Saw
5 Myths about 7 Books

Lectionary Statistics - How much of the Bible is included in the Lectionary for Mass? (Popquiz!)
Pope calls Catholics to daily meditation on the Bible
What Are the "Apocrypha?"
The Accuracy of Scripture
US Conference of Catholic Bishops recommendations for Bible study
CNA unveils resource to help Catholics understand the Scriptures
The Dos and Don’ts of Reading the Bible [Ecumenical]
Pope to lead marathon Bible reading on Italian TV
The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books [Ecumenical]
Beginning Catholic: Books of the Catholic Bible: The Complete Scriptures [Ecumenical]

Beginning Catholic: When Was The Bible Written? [Ecumenical]
The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books [Ecumenical]
U.S. among most Bible-literate nations: poll
Bible Lovers Not Defined by Denomination, Politics
Dei Verbum (Catholics and the Bible)
Vatican Offers Rich Online Source of Bible Commentary
Clergy Congregation Takes Bible Online
Knowing Mary Through the Bible: Mary's Last Words
A Bible Teaser For You... (for everyone :-)
Knowing Mary Through the Bible: New Wine, New Eve

Return of Devil's Bible to Prague draws crowds
Doctrinal Concordance of the Bible [What Catholics Believe from the Bible] Catholic Caucus
Should We Take the Bible Literally or Figuratively?
Glimpsing Words, Practices, or Beliefs Unique to Catholicism [Bible Trivia]
Catholic and Protestant Bibles: What is the Difference?
Church and the Bible(Caatholic Caucus)
Pope Urges Prayerful Reading of Bible
Catholic Caucus: It's the Church's Bible
How Tradition Gave Us the Bible
The Church or the Bible

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists
that they have the Word of God,
that we received it from them,
and that without them
we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther

[Salvation]

**Faith alone, Grace alone, Scripture alone.**

You do know that Luther added the word ‘alone’ to the Bible, don’t you?

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

The Nazis were a Satanic organiztion of murderous thugs, who took power in a majority Protestant country. The trappings of the Church were of no use to them and they persecuted the Church in every country they took over. Some Christians were attracted to the movement at first as a way to stop Communism, but they were fooled, and soon it was too late to do anything about it.

[Zionist Conspirator]

The Nazis aptly co-opted the trapping of the Roman Catholic Church to push their agenda

And the Lutheran Church as well.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

The Reformation was a tragedy, if more Christian charity was shown by both sides, the unity of the Church would have been preserved. Both sides should have prayed over John 17.

[Claud]

We all can point to problems in each others’ religious histories. To say that invalidates one branch of Christendom, it must invalidate all then.

Yes we can. That's why I make it a point not to do that--it leads nowhere. And there are plenty of REAL scandals enough in the Catholic Church that we don't have to go inventing new ones. To wit:

You know, the priests who take celibacy vows and have sex with any and eveything.

This is an honest to goodness scandal.

The Inquisition and murder of hundreds of thousands of people in the name of Christ.

See now here we get into trouble. Where you are getting "hundreds of thousands"? The most accurate figures I've seen on the Inquisition have been in the low thousands or tens of thousands--and that was over some 500 years. Maybe you are lumping in the Crusades as well?

Or just wanting a bible in their own native tongue, maybe getting a chance to read it.

Again, here's a problem. The Vulgate *was* a native tongue Bible when Latin was the language of the Empire. The Church blessed the work of Saints Cyril and Methodius who translated the Bible and the liturgy into Slavonic. And there were vernacular translations of the Bible in practically every European country by the 1400s--many of them produced by the Universities (which were Church sponsored). The Church never had a problem with the vernacular per se. It had a problem with the vernacular being used as a vehicle for heresy.

Propping up the nazis as the national church.

Again....what??? Pope Pius XII was regarded by the Nazis as a Public Enemy. They routinely excoriated him. The Church was very anti-Nazi. There was absolutely no "propping up", and in fact, Pius XI wrote a stinging encyclical in German condemning some of the errors of Naziism.

See what I'm saying here? The "facts" which many people have about the Church are often completely exaggerated or even a tissue of lies made of whole cloth. I say again, there are PLENTY of honest, historically valid Catholic scandals to pick on without having to resort to these. Bring up Honorius. Bring up the Papal States. Bring up simony.

[CTrent1564]

Jewbacca:

I am not going to engage your Catholic bashing. I am Catholic born, Catholic bred and will die a Catholic. So lets get that out in the open.

Now, to your post. It did not mean death. The Inquisition did not have any jurisdiction over Jews.

The facts are that many Jews conspired with the Moslems against Catholic-Spain. In those days, individual rights were not such that while some Jews did not conspire and thus were not guilty of treason, again, many did conspire with the Moslems who had “invaded Spain”.

I am not defending anything. I am only provideing what happened and putting it in historical context. The U.S. executed the Rosenbergs for conspiring against the US and giving secrets to the communist, was the U.S. wrong? However, the U.S. and our form of Justice and our courts did not then challenge the loyalty of ever Jewish-American, even though those 2 American-Jews were communist and committed high treason.

Now, using 20th-21st century principles of Justice, imputing the guilt of some Jews to all Jewish-Spainards was wrong. However, I am not a deconstructionist and try to retroactively use 21st century principles of the U.S. Constitution and Human Rights back to the 15th century.

I choose to look at the 15th century and the events that occurred in the context of that time.

No Jews were ever threatened with Death. If Jews chose to stay in Spain, there was a restriction of their rights and property and what professions you could work in, etc but not the “Death Penalty”. That is BS.

The Church investigated who was a “heretic” and thus who was not truly “Catholic”. The secular courts then decided on the punishment and the most extreme heretics, who were viewed as potential revolutionaries were given the “death penalty” So, if you were a dissident Catholic, it was you who faced the death penalty.

Jews were never brought before the Inquisition. It was deporation, convert or live in Jewish-Ghettoes with restrictions on your rights.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

Only a man who loves the truth could post a statement as you did. Were everyone had this love. ( it might set them free )

[CTrent1564]

Jewbacca:

The problem with your photographs is that you could find every other European leader or representative from those same European countries meeting with the Pope or the Pope’s diplomats.

Who the hell new what Hitler was going to do? The English Government, via Chamberlain, actually made peace with Hitler after he annexed part of the Czek Republic. Every other government ruler tried to appease him.

The only ones publicly challenging the Nazi Ideology in the 30’s was the Catholic Church, they crtized the racial aspects, they were the ones criticizing the eugenics movement which promoted sterilization of undesireable people, which of course led to euthansia, which is what actually happened to Pope Benedict’s 1st cousin.

[Natural Law]

"If Luther, who wrote a book got ecommunicated, Hitler was certainly "worthy" of such condemnation, as well."

Your lack of understanding of canon law does not have bearing on the subject. Hitler was no longer a Catholic so excommunication was not necessary or appropriate. Luther, on the other hand, represented himself as a Catholic and was excommunicated, not for writing a book, but for his heretical advocacy.

I lived and worked in Israel for several years. During that time I witnessed a good deal of racism and prejudice by some Jews towards Arabs, Christians, Germans and even Ethiopian Jews. Some of these were governmental figures and others prominent in Rabbinical organizations. I do not believe that these positions, even when justified by Scripture, were indicative of Judaism, Israel or Jews in general. Do you?

[HossB86]

Just curious....

Hoss

[CTrent1564]

Natural Law:

It is also the case that Martin Luther at the time before his excommunication was Father Martin Luther, a priest of the Augustinian Monks/Order, and he was challenging the 1,500 year apostolic Tradition.

Excommunication is incurred 2 ways 1) ferendae sententia, which is after a formal proceding, which is what happened to Luther and 2) latae sententia, which is an automatic excommunication because the act itself is a serious rupture with the life of the Church and thus Christ.

I don’t have a 1917 Code of Canon Law but at that time, there were some 30 offenses and under the 1983 Canon, I think there are 7, 1 of which is procuring an abortion. Another one is Apostasy and heresy, which certainly Hitler would have been guilty of. He clearly viewed Nazism as a religion were the German Race was superior to non-Germans, note he invaded Poland and killed thousands of Catholic Priests there and viewed the Slavic-Poles as subhuman.

He publicly claimed that Jesus was the “bastard son of a Roman” Soldier, thus not Jewish. Again, Heresy and Apostasy,

Thus, under canon Law, Hitler was excommunicated latae sententia. End of discussion.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

seriously, did anyone EVER think Hitler was Catholic??????

[Claud]

Let’s test this notion of jurisdiction empirically.

Jewbacca, suppose I were to write Cardinal Levada of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith (formerly the Inquisition) and formally accuse you of heresy. I could demand a heresy trial, and then say that you, as a Jew, subscribe to the heresies of X, X, X, and X.

Dollars to doughnuts I get a polite but puzzled letter back that says “Uhh, thanks for writing, but actually since Signor Jewbacca is not a Catholic, he cannot be a Catholic heretic, and he therefore does not fall under the purview of this office.”

;-)

[Quix]

INDEED!

The applicable STATIONS

of the

Stations of the White Hanky are:

2. Black/white icon of duplicity, double standard dance
5. Icon of obfuscations to the supreme degree
8. Icon of the rubber daffynitionary
9. Icon of the rubber logic text
10. Icon of hubris to the supreme degree
11. Groping for any explanation but the truth
12. Icon to the holy flip-flops in word meanings and arguments
14. Icon to the fantasized divine right, to be correct, pristinely sanctified & perfectly flawless in all respects in all cases all the time, regardless of the REAL TRUTH.
15. Icon to chronic & obsessive inconsistency.
17. Icon to the undivine right of terminal snootiness to the max.

[AnalogReigns]

When Luther finally received the Papal Bull excommunicating him, he famously burned it--along with copies of Roman Catholic canon law.

On the exact spot where he burned it, just outside medieval Wittenberg's gate (and on the way from the train-station into Wittenberg today) an Oak tree was planted. It remained until Napoleon's troops tore it down when they occupied Wittenberg. Another tree was replanted then, and remains to this day:

[Cardhu]

Your lack of understanding of canon law does not have bearing on the subject. Hitler was no longer a Catholic

How convenient, what happened to ´"Once a Catholic always a Catholic," upon which you base your gazillion followers world-wide. Is that to lie to inflate your following?

Once Baptized always Baptized. You cannot undo your Baptism. Baptism makes you a Christian and member of the Mystical Body of Christ"

So when Hitler was baptized into the Mystical Body of Christ in the Catholic Church, it was only provisional, until Natural Law discovered canon law to say it ain't so.

Is it true that a Catholic remains a Catholic and subject to the laws of the Catholic Church, even if they do not practice the Catholic faith, unless they have formally left the Catholic Church?

Not that it matters because Pope Pius XII was also Hitler's good friend and beholden to Mussolini for making him a Head of State. Such favors are always rewarded.

[Gamecock]

Right back at ya Mom!

[metmom]

Welcome to FR. So you signed up two days ago and jumped in with both feet attacking Protestants on the RF on only two threads.

What was your previous screen name?