Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ

LDS.org ^ | Dennis B. Neuenschwander

[DelphiUser]

Didn’t think you did. Just explaining.

[Tennessee Nana]

with first a warning, thread locking and a suspension of posting rights.
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Theres been all that for a while...

and BTW I dont offend easily...

but you go ahead...

[DelphiUser]

Nice, I do not condone polygamy. It Is an illegal practice and my religion requires me to obey the laws of the land.

I have pointed out that polygamy is Biblical.

I have also pointed out that making polygamy illegal does not make it immoral any more than making abortion legal makes it moral.

For God fearing men God's word not law determines morality.

[eyedigress]

I do recall you from years back. I wish you a Happy New Year and a chance to teach the idiots how to live again. (I’ll take my IBM and go home). ;^)

[restornu]

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[americanophile]

...is it inaccurate?

[DelphiUser]

Thanks, I wish you a wonderful, freedom filled 2011.

TTYL

Delph

[DelphiUser]

Going to bed... visiting relatives and its just too hard to keep up on my phone.

Delph

[restornu]

What is inaccurate?

[restornu]

NO I was really puzzle when I first read it and I don’t think it was honest in presenting it self so close to the Church web site but I think like most of this stuff on the net one has to look carefully as not to be fooled!

[delacoert]

Just having a hard time accepting some of their threads (like this one for example) that I find extremely offensive.

I agree. Thank you.

[restornu]

No it is not accurated it is late...

[Syncro]

"Jesus was always God.

"Isa 43 Jehovah was the only God formed"

First lets qualify, Jehovah is Father God.

God was not "formed." He has existed forever.

In traditional mainstream Christianity, Jehovah always refers to God the Father.

Jehovah is not a name for Jesus as LDSers are wont to exclaim. (!)

So because Jesus was always God, that explains the 'we' in the following passage of scripture. I have added the portion in the [ ]:

Genesis 26: And God said, Let us [God the Father, God the Holy Spirit, God the Son, Jesus] make man in our [God the Father, God the Holy Spirit, God the Son, Jesus] image, after our [God the Father, God the Holy Spirit, God the Son, Jesus] likeness:... 27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him

It has been said that you can find Jesus in every page of the OT.

[eyedigress]

It’s true but you had better be quick! ;^)

[Redcloak]

Just curious, has the author picked out his planet yet? I’m sure that he wouldn’t want to be the god of a lifeless rock. Or worse, perhaps, having nothing but silicon based lifeforms swimming in liquid nitrogen as worshipers. He should pick a good one before they’re all taken.

[Sontagged]

Which Bible test? you don’t have to tell me your message, just what you are referring to.

[restornu]

I appreciate your understanding for many in my youth held to that belief that Jehovah was God the Father which was universal.

Now that more understanding has come into the earth many realized Jehovah is the Son YAWA etc.

To the LDS Elohim is the Father.

This Isa 43 Jehovah was the only God formed" I paraphased it that way because the verse states none before, and none afterward,

These verses are all taken from the Blue Bible gateway.

KJV

Isa 43:10 Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

NIV

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.

NASB

Isa 43:10 "You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.

[MARTIAL MONK]

UTAH!

•

•

•

• Utah is a beautiful state.

It’s Reagan country.

• That’s 72.77% for Reagan in 1980.

Utah is one of the few states that should never be asked for bona fides, either Republican or conservative. Ever. Conservatism is in the blood. It’s the nature of the critter.

If you want to see the cutting edge of conservatism in the same place as a mature vision of a conservative society just take a tour of Utah. It’s an ultra-modern state where traditional values have never skipped a beat. This is what the Republican Party is all about.

In the 1980’s the Republican Party was full of bright young kids rarin’ to go, to build a life, raise their families, to make an America that they could be proud of. We set the world on fire with those kids. All we did was to get out of their way. Today those kids are greyer, rounder, slower and much of the fire is gone from the belly. Their replacements aren’t much. Daily I see young tradesmen who have to bring their girlfriends along to read or understand the simplest of forms. They have no ambition beyond “gittin’ a job”.

Some time ago some of us became worried about the quality of leadership coming up through the ranks and we set about trying to find out what happened to those bright young folks and why. We found them, they are just not as numerous and they have shifted their sights upward. They are now in international banking, in high tech, in medical research. Most are as conservative as Goldwater and living quietly in a society that has seemingly rejected that conservatism. It is our intent to open doors and get these folks pipelined into leadership positions.

There is also a geographic bias. The Dakotas and Nebraska have disproportionate share for their populations. Colorado is good, as is West Texas or Wyoming. We are creaming the best of California. There is one state that stands out, though, and that is Utah. They are everywhere, young, confident, bright and ambitious.

This I what we are looking for:

•

States that can stand on their own and be states.

And this:

Young. Utah has the youngest population of any state. They are young and conservative, a combination that few states have.

Educated. The population coming up is young and well educated and they are doing it on one of the lowest budgets in the country.

Families. A new generation of conservative leaders. Utah is one of the fastest growing states and it is primarily internal growth. Intact families having children.

Utah is not an addendum to or an ally of the conservative movement, Utah is the heart and soul of it. The South was never part of the Reagan Revolution. Utah led it.

I am concerned that we may be alienating the most conservative state in the union. In 1980 I was in Arizona and sometimes Nevada during Reagan’s campaign. We didn’t have much to do, Reagan was our guy, and generally we were left alone except for the push to raise money. We would occasionally get a request to do something or other and of course we would have a meeting, usually at night after work. We would discuss who was going to do it, how we were going to pay for it, how it was to be done, etc. It was a good two week process. The Mormons had a separate organization that sometimes intersected with ours. We could hand them something at eight o’clock at night and at eight the next morning they would have people on the streets in Salt Lake, in Phoenix, in Reno, in Boise, in Helena and all points between. Without doubt they were the most enthusiastically Reaganite state in the union.

Take heart and may God Bless.

[Syncro]

Well restornu, no God formed doesn't presuppose that God was formed. Unless He formed Himself.

The point of that scripture isn't on the word "formed" but on the fact that he is the Alpha and The Omega, as is Jesus.

It's quite clear from gathering many scriptures ( instead of just one that uses the word formed, which I would have to check the Hebrew to see it's real meaning) that God is one God and was not "formed" by a sexual union with another god before him.

Now about the title YAWA (or Yhwh) from which comes Jehovah you can read below and see it is the Father God and not Jesus except in the sense that God, Son, and the Holy Spirit make up the One True God:

Interestingly, the Name of God “YHwH” is often translated “The Lord” in the Old Testament. It means “He IS”

In appearance, Yhwh () is the third person singular imperfect "ḳal" of the verb ("to be"), meaning, therefore, "He is," or "He will be," or, perhaps, "He lives," the root idea of the word being,probably, "to blow," "to breathe," and hence, "to live." With this explanation agrees the meaning of the name given in Ex. iii. 14, where God is represented as speaking, and hence as using the first person—"I am" (, from , the later equivalent of the archaic stem ). The meaning would, therefore, be "He who is self-existing, self-sufficient," or, more concretely, "He who lives," the abstract conception of pure existence being foreign to Hebrew thought. There is no doubt that the idea of life was intimately connected with the name Yhwh from early times. He is the living God, as contrasted with the lifeless gods of the heathen, and He is the source and author of life (comp. I Kings xviii.; Isa. xli. 26-29, xliv. 6-20; Jer. x. 10, 14; Gen. ii. 7; etc.). So familiar is this conception of God to the Hebrew mind that it appears in the common formula of an oath, "ḥai Yhwh" (= "as Yhwh lives"; Ruth iii. 13; I Sam. xiv. 45; etc.).

That bit came from a post on this thread by FR member Alamo Girl, who is highly respected on this forum for her Biblical wisdom and knowledge.

LINK

You would do well to read that whole post of hers, it could very well speak to your heart.

[Cronos]

ok, so the LDS does not believe that God the Father had a Father who had a Father and so on?

If you can clarify that point, it would help us understand each other a lot. thank you!