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[ECUMENICAL] For My Non-Catholic Readers
Crossed The Tiber ^ | 12/29/2010 | Russ Rentler

Posted on 12/29/2010 11:41:03 AM PST by markomalley

This is a re-post of a previous blog but it warrants repeating. From time to time I get non-Catholics who read the blog and invite me to read their blogs in the hopes I will decide to convert. They believe they are being obedient  to "preach the gospel in season and out."  The presupposition with some of  these individuals is that Catholicism is a false religion or a "false gospel" .  The fact that a person would believe Catholicism is false clearly indicates that they have never studied what Catholicism is all about from a Catholic perspective. It is easy to draw a caricature of what Catholicism is based on myths, lies, distortions. After all, this has been going on for the past 500 years and the purveyors of falsehood have had an abundant amount of time to perfect their attacks.

What I can tell you is that when a person  begins to read what the Church actually says about itself and its doctrines, the scales often fall from their eyes and the Holy Spirit brings them Home. I was one of those.


So, once again, for my readers who believe Catholicism is false:

Did you ever ask yourself why you hate Catholicism so much?
 Who taught me what I think I know about the Catholic Church? Is what I was taught true? Have I looked at what the Catholic Church has to say about itself, using official resources such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church and papal encyclicals? Could my opinion of the Catholic Church possibly be based on bias, bigotry, bad history, propaganda from the secular media, or the bad priests who get publicity (i.e., the sick, and sickening, pedophile priests or those certain heretical modernist priests the secular media love to give press to)? Is it fair to judge doctrine by such things? Is any group with human beings in it free from sin and scandal? If I am wrong about the Catholic Church, what does that mean?

Here are some common myths about the Catholic Church:


If you believe any of the above myths, I implore you to research. For doctrinal questions, ask the Church what it teaches; it's the only fair thing to do. For historical questions, look at balanced and objective scholarly research from a variety of sources (including Catholic ones). And as you research, keep in mind the common logical fallacies that are often used in attacks against Catholicism:

Generalization: "I knew a Catholic/ex-Catholic (or I was a Catholic) who was (mean, a drunk, not holy, didn't like the Church, was superstitious, didn't know the Bible, didn't have a deep relationship with Jesus, etc.), so therefore, the teachings of the Catholic Church are wrong." (Ignores the fact that bad catechesis, misunderstandings, or other shortcomings of a few Catholics do not reflect on what the Catholic Church teaches)

Bifurcation:"If the Catholic Church doesn't teach that it's faith alone that saves, then it must teach that men are saved by their own works." (Ignores that we teach that we are saved by Grace alone -- a Grace with which we must cooperate through "faith that works in love")

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc (with this, therefore because of this): "Winter Solstice is on 21 December; Christmas is 25 December. Therefore, Christmas is a pagan holiday. (Ignores that fact that there are only 365 days to choose from in a year and that the early Church Fathers had good reasons to choose the date they did. It also ignores that Protestants' "Reformation Day" is celebrated on 31 October, the pagan festival of Samhain.)


Post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this, therefore because of this): "Constantine must have been the real source of the Catholic Church's teachings because after his reign the Church grew tremendously, and before his reign it wasn't as well-known" (Ignores the simple fact that Constantine merely stopped the persecution of Christians with the Edict of Milan and allowed Christianity to spread. It also ignores the writings of the Church Fathers who lived before Constantine -- and who were Catholic.)

Straw man: "You guys worship statues, and that's evil. Therefore, your religion is Satanic." (Ignores that fact that we don't worship statues)

(comes From FISHEATERS WEBSITE)


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology
KEYWORDS: freformed
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To: RnMomof7

Justification—God’s action of declaring sinners righteous or “not guilty.”

Sanctification—Our works of faith done by the power of the Holy Spirit.


81 posted on 12/29/2010 7:51:19 PM PST by Vegasrugrat
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To: metmom

Not a liberal view at all. This is on Fisheaters.com — that is NOT a liberal site at all.

Neither is the author.


82 posted on 12/29/2010 7:52:34 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: presently no screen name

The author is not a liberal. Fisheaters.com is a very orthodox site.....and this is on it!


83 posted on 12/29/2010 7:53:32 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Vegasrugrat
Sanctification—Our works of faith done by the power of the Holy Spirit.

So we sanctify ourselves with works???

84 posted on 12/29/2010 7:54:16 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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To: wmfights

Well, I certainly believe in freedom of religion. People can not be forced into certain belief systems, although Marxists believe they can and will force you into theirs.

What I do like about the hierarchy of the Catholic Church is that it allows for the intense philosophical and theological study that most people never have the opportunity for because they have families, or have struggle for life. I love the fact that the Pope has read all the German philosophy—including Nietzsche, in German, no less. The intellectual capacity and genius of that man, makes me doubt that there is any thinker more profound than he is. (I know —I have a high regard for the present pope!)

I think understanding the Gospel is not always that easy and to have people debate and discuss those issues in such depth leads to greater understanding and growth than just reading by yourself by the fire. Discussion and interactions with other thinkers is the way to expand knowledge in a way that can never be done alone.


85 posted on 12/29/2010 7:54:36 PM PST by savagesusie
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To: wmfights

You are aware, I hope, that when Catholics are baptized, they are BORN AGAIN. It’s not an emotional thing. It’s a God thing.....I baptize the in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.


86 posted on 12/29/2010 7:55:37 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: metmom
"That is so transparent that it’s not even funny."

It wasn't meant to be funny, just tongue in cheek. Since this is an ecumenical thread it is supposed to be free of antagonism and hate (even from you). Giving the benefit of the doubt all antagonism and hatred must be the result of a hacker and not a freeper.

87 posted on 12/29/2010 7:56:00 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: metmom
 
Here are the rules as posted (my copy and paste) on the Religion Moderator's profile page.

Ecumenic[al] threads.

Who can post? Anyone

What can be posted? Articles that are reasonably not antagonistic. Reply posts must never be antagonistic.

What will be pulled? Antagonistic reply posts. If the article is inappropriate for an ecumenic discussion, the tag will be changed to open.

Who will be booted? Antagonists


88 posted on 12/29/2010 7:56:27 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Vegasrugrat
I have to go buy white out for Matthew 7:21, I Cor 9:27, and a bunch of others. When I finish that, I'll get that list of textbooks and histories that contradict what you like and I can start throwing them all away.

Is Augustine OK or should I throw out his stuff as well? Melanchton and Luther both have to go (obviously) but what about Athanasuis?

Oh, what the heck, it can all go. The trick is to just sit and grin because I have a free ticket out of this chit hole and nothing I can do will take that away. Neat trick, huh?

89 posted on 12/29/2010 7:57:51 PM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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Comment #90 Removed by Moderator

To: RnMomof7

To be sanctified is to be made holy, by the Holy Spirit. When the Bible talks about sanctification, it is always in the context of how we live, now that we are believers. In other words, this “being made holy” is not how we get to heaven—Jesus has already accomplished that through his death on the cross, paying for our sins. To be sanctified is to live in thankful response to what Jesus has done. Our faith in Jesus shows in the way we conduct ourselves according to the instruction that God gives us in his Word.


91 posted on 12/29/2010 7:59:08 PM PST by Vegasrugrat
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To: Salvation
"Why are you being antagonisitic on an ecumenical thread?"

Some are predestined to hatred, other are merely predisposed.

92 posted on 12/29/2010 8:00:18 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: Vegasrugrat
To be sanctified is to be made holy, by the Holy Spirit. When the Bible talks about sanctification, it is always in the context of how we live, now that we are believers.

Does it say we are sanctified BECAUSE of how we live or we live a certain way BECAUSE we are being sanctified?

Do you have the scripture that says we are sanctified by our works handy?

93 posted on 12/29/2010 8:04:33 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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To: metmom

Thanks for the ping....

Same old denials creeping across this thread that we’ve seen in others. ‘Staggering” is right. I don’t know why catholics continually post about the History of their church in order to justify themselves and Rome...and yet deny the accurate history, and well documented, of it’s very dark side.....which continues to hold the leadership unaccountable.

There is a vast difference between non-catholics and catholics in dealing with corruption in their churches. If a Protestant church ceases to deal with corruption...and it’s hold has fully ingrained the leadership....the congregation will fight them....if they do not overcome....people will leave....the church splits then...we see this happening today as some accept the homosexual agenda...who are fast corrupting many churches.

But the pedifile issue in the catholic church just pays off their victums and in many cases blame them as money grabbers. The guilty are indeed protected for the most part...and remain so today.

The church on a whole is being corrupted today...this we see clearly...but Christ said this would come as the day approaches. There is not one church who isn’t under attack.


94 posted on 12/29/2010 8:08:56 PM PST by caww
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To: Salvation

Why are you not chastising the Catholics on this thread who have been antagonistic as well?


95 posted on 12/29/2010 8:09:53 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Rashputin

Sorry, but you have lost me on this. I have no idea what your point is, I apologize.


96 posted on 12/29/2010 8:11:52 PM PST by Vegasrugrat
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To: RnMomof7
"Do you have the scripture that says we are sanctified by our works handy? "

Hebrews 10:10 isn't negotiable so there isn't a verse that says works sanctify.

Acts 5:32, though, says that if you don't obey you don't have the Holy Ghost. Can you be sanctified without having the Holy Ghost in your life?

You're the Pope, you decide

97 posted on 12/29/2010 8:13:44 PM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: caww

The situations I’ve seen in Protestant churches in matters like adultery, dishonest business practices, etc, have resulted in either the pastor being removed from office or the member being removed from the church membership roles.

They were kicked out of the church, officially by the board.

There was church discipline practiced in these situations.

Catholics and the Catholic church are hardly in a position to cast any stones in the area of not dealing with sin in their midst.


98 posted on 12/29/2010 8:17:04 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Vegasrugrat

You wrote:

“Sorry, but history says otherwise.”

No, it does not. I have a PhD in history and studied this for years.

“Read the 95 Theses.”

I have. Many times. It offers no evidence for the claim that was made.

“Do a google, there are many sources which historically document the RCC sold indulgences.”

Wrong. There are no original sources at all that show that. In other words, there plenty of morons today who make the claim that the Catholic Church sold indulgences but no one, ever, anywhere, at any time, EVER, has been able to show one scrap of evidence that the Catholic sold indulgences. All anyone has been able to show is that Catholics violated canon law and illegally sold indulgences. What I am saying is irrefutably true. I have researched it endlessly and every single person I have ever challenged to present evidence of the Catholic Church selling indulgences has failed each and every single time to present any such evidence at all. You will fail too. You might even know you’ll fail. Maybe that’s why you’re not offering any evidence yourself.

“But worse than indulgences was the following official statement of the RCC (Council of Trent, Session VI, Canon 12) “If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than trust in God’s mercy, which remits sin for Christ’s sake, or that it is this trust alone which justifies us, let him be damned.””

Nothing wrong with telling the truth. Without repentance there is no salvation. Trusting in Jesus without repenting of your sins will not save you. If you don’t turn your heart to God there can be no genuine trust in Him. Did you ever even think of that?

I don’t think you know as much as you apparently think you do.


99 posted on 12/29/2010 8:17:41 PM PST by vladimir998 (Copts, Nazis, Franks and Beans - what a public school education puts in your head.)
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To: Salvation; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...

Let’s look at antagonism on this thread....

From the beginning of the article....

“So, once again, for my readers who believe Catholicism is false:
Did you ever ask yourself why you hate Catholicism so much?”

Antagonism right out of the gate. Attacking non-Catholics with a falsehood that they *hate* Catholicism as if it were true and then asking why they do what they are falsely accused of.

It falls into the *Have you stopped beating your wife yet?* category.


100 posted on 12/29/2010 8:21:13 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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