Posted on 11/05/2010 6:32:25 PM PDT by Colofornian
LDS Prophet Joseph Smith taught that God was once a mortal man:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,...
It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6).
LDS President Brigham Young declared that God was once a finite being:
"It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290).
LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith said that God had a father, a grandfather, etc.:
"Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith taught that God was born as a mortal on some other earth:
"I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions...Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman" (Deseret News, Church News, Sept. 19, 1936, p. 2).
LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught:
"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64)
LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife:
"For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother" (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129).
LDS Doctrine and Covenants promises the faithful LDS couple that they can achieve godhood in the same manner as God the Father:
"...if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity,... they shall [have]...a continuation of the seeds [children] forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting,... Then shall they be gods, because they have all power,... and continuation of the lives,... [endless procreation of spirit children]" (Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:18-22)
LDS President Brigham Young taught that faithful Mormons can achieve godhood:
"Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligences that dwell in eternity. We are now in the school, and must practice upon what we receive" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 245).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith said:
"We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or a similar ordeal" (Gospel Doctrine, p. 54).
As recently as 2007 both Apostle Boyd K. Packer and Dallen Oakes, during an interview for PBS, explained that God the father has a resurrected body. Apostle Packer stated:
"That vision [Joseph Smith's 1820 vision] taught us some things. We learned about the personality of God the Father, a resurrected Being, as part of our gospel." [link]
Apostle Oakes used the same term when he was interviewed:
"The first revelation received by Joseph Smith was the appearance to him of the Father and the Son embodied, separate, identifiable, tangible Beings who appeared to him in what we refer to as the First Vision. And that first revelation, concerning the nature of God as an embodied, glorified, resurrected Being, challenged the creeds of Christianity. Christianity describes God as a disembodied, incomprehensible, spiritual entity that fills the whole universe, and an indistinguishable Father and Son." [link]
LDS Apostle James E. Talmage taught that God progressed from a mortal to a god:
"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement — a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be'" (Articles of Faith, Ch. 24, p. 430-431).
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What the Bible Says About God
1. ALWAYS GOD - in the past as well as in the future.
"Art thou not from ever-lasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One?" Hab. 1:12
"For I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6
"...from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psa. 90:2
"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent." Num. 23:19
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." Rom. 1:22-25
The LDS god started as a finite man and progressed to godhood.
2. ALWAYS HOLY - Both in the past and future.
"...a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut. 32:4
"I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee." Hos. 11:9
"The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works." Psa. 145:17
"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5
"Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness." Psa. 119:142
The LDS god achieved holiness.
3. ALL KNOWING - Both in the past and in the future.
"Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? ... There is no searching of his understanding." Isa. 40:13, 14, 28
"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." Psa. 147:5
The LDS god had to learn everything.
4. ALL POWERFUL
"The Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Rev. 19:6
"...his eternal power and Godhead." Rom. 1:20
The LDS god attained his power.
5. OMNIPRESENT
"The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; where is the house that ye build unto me: and where is the place of my rest?" Isa. 66:1
"Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:23-24
The LDS god can be in only one place at a time.
6. ACTED ALONE IN CREATION
"I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." Isa. 44:24
"By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth." Psa. 33:6
"Thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all." Neh. 9:6
The LDS god cooperated with the Council of Gods to create.
7. NO OTHER GODS
"I am he; before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." Isa. 43:10-11
"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....is there a God beside me; yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isa. 44:6 & 8
"To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isa. 46:5 & 9
"I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another." Isa. 42:8
The LDS God has a father and mother, grandparents, brothers and sisters, etc.
For a more in-depth discussion of the LDS view of God and man:
Mormonism and the Threefold Problem of Progression: Examining the LDS Doctrine of Eternal Progression in Light of the Bible, Philosophy, and Science
Good post, Harley:-)
Oh, I really doubt that.
Just 7 minutes ???
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Cordiated Universal Time gave me 13 minutes...
Plus I got my “u” back..
But then...
Iz speshell...
:)
placemarker
My apologies for the slip up. I will revise and extend my remarks.
In post #491, I responded to Stourme’s claims that my
previous post was so “ugly” because I referred to her
cult (mormons) as a cult.
I posted this in response... “You conveniently overlook that your cult sends 50,000 people throughout the world every day to tell every kind of Christian their church is false.”
I apologize for making it personal by using the words
“you conveniently overlook”.
What I should have said is...
“your post does not include the FACT that your cult
sends out more than 50,000 people throughout the
world every day to tell every kind of Christian their
church is false. When I point out that your cult is
false, you post that what I’ve written is “ugly”.
Now, that strikes me, as apparently, in my opinion, from
my perspective, as darned selective usage of the facts and
the height of hypocrisy. It seems, apparently, a way to
play the mormon victim’s card while doing worse - but of
course this is only my opinion and I will have to leave it
up to each reader to determine their own opinion on this.
I will give extra effort to making sure I am explicit in
a non-personal way. Especially to women.
best to all,
ampu
Resty, what is your core belief?
Still waiting....
The Jesus you and your co hearts believe in seem unable to wash your filthy rags!
____________________________________________
Who or what washes your filthy rags ???
Or are you able to do that yourself ???
*****
The Tradition of Men (ToM) does not teach correct principles therefor the people will stubble and are unable to understand the Word.
True Humility in the Lord does not come by self-depreciation with thoughts of filthy rags, or none is righteous that is the way of the world, but not of the Lord.
The very mindset or concept that all your days “none are righteous or like filthy rags” denies and denounces the price the Lord paid for our redemption.
This is why the Lord provied a way wash off the dirt of the word as in baptism and sacrament.
If the ToM embrace those correct principles many would not feel comfortable in being contentions for they would not want to go against the Lord, but strive to do the will of the Lord with Joy in their hearts.
I am not always successful but I am willing to strive to do the Lord will.
1 Thes. 2 ( Love, work, labor, faith, will,)
7 But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children:
8 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.
9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.
10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:
11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children,
12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
17 But we, brethren, being taken from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured the more abundantly to see your face with great desire.
18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
20 For ye are our glory and joy.
How can one honestly walk worthy in the sight of the Lord if they are going against His will by being disruptive speaking ill of another even being contentious? Rom. 2: 10 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
This is why the Lord provied a way wash off the dirt of the word world as in baptism and sacrament.
First to where the phrase comes from:
Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
The phrase has been used at FreeRepublic to allude to the notion that one can't live righteous enough to earn God's Grace in the end of life. This is usually during a debate over faith in Jesus rewarded by Salvation and God's Spirit coming to dwell with the faither/Christian, versus working to earn Grace as is taught by the religion of Mormonism. There is a very revealing episode in the ministry of Jesus which illustrates this in an astonishingly simple way. Among the scenes recorded in the Gospels, this particular scene is found in all four Gospels!
Matthew 9:20 And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:
Mark 5:25 And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,
Luke 8:43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,
Luke 8:44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.
In the interest of brevity, I'll ask simply, 'What was Jesus's reaction to the astonishing boldness of this woman who knew she was 'unclean' in Jewish law yet she brazenly approached in stealth and touched Jesus's robe?' ... He told her that her FAITH had made her whole. He didn't say 'Your bold work has made you whole'. This woman who was by Jewish law a most unclean thing, approach with stealth and reached to touch just the hem of Jesus's robe! She was the living epitome of 'filthy rags' (the phrase Isaiah used referred to the menstrual rags).
At this point we ought to make an association: everyone who tries to bring their righteous works to God believing they have earned His Grace, should take Isaiah's advice as to the perspective on these 'filthy rags' they bring. Their filthy rags are not going to earn God's Grace; only their faith will have God making them whole, and that before ANY works should be brought to God.
It is my longshot hope that as duped Mormons bring their filthy rags to God at the end of their lives, expecting these filthy rags to earn His Grace in Christ Jesus, at least God in His mercy will grant them Salvation in Christ because of their faith that God alone can apply His Grace to them, and He will vanish their filthy rags as if they were not even there, seeing only their faith.
BUT, Mormons should note that the woman was not bringing her filthy rags to Jesus as a gift, she was bringing her desperate need for His 'virtue', and it was her faith that He had that virtue and that His virtue would flow to her that allowed God to heal her issue of blood, the source of her filthiness before the law.
It is better to put down those filthy rags now, and approach Christ with faith alone, then His Spirit can live His nature in them as they yield to His indwelling presence throughout the rest of their life.
Well written MHG! May every person who claims to be a Christian put their works in the proper perspective and rely on the free gift of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus. “lest any should boast”
I don’t know any Mormon who has said they are going to enter into God’s presence by virtue of their own righteousness.
That’s not going to happen — the only hope we have is through the mercy and grace that is extended through the sacrice that Jesus has made for us. There is no other way, and Latter-day Saints know and teach that.
Nice strawman and not the point of the post I made. I have not stated that Mormons believe they will enter into God’s presence on the strength of their filthy rags. I have stated that Mormonism teaches Mormons are to earn God’s Grace through their ‘righteous works’ in life so that in the end they may earn God’s Grace. THAT IS WAHT MORMONISM TEACHES, didn’t you know?
I have stated that Mormonism teaches Mormons are to earn God’s Grace through their ‘righteous works’ in life so that in the end they may earn God’s Grace. THAT IS WAHT MORMONISM TEACHES, didn’t you know?
***
Boloney sausage that straw man belongs too you...
Sounds like you need more fiber - eat more onions :)
You sound like an astronomer...
You sound like an astronomer...
...with a bad spellchecker.
;^)
This is why the Lord provied a way wash off the dirt of the word as in baptism and sacrament.
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As well as a bunch of other stuff!
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