Posted on 11/05/2010 6:32:25 PM PDT by Colofornian
LDS Prophet Joseph Smith taught that God was once a mortal man:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,...
It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6).
LDS President Brigham Young declared that God was once a finite being:
"It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290).
LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith said that God had a father, a grandfather, etc.:
"Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith taught that God was born as a mortal on some other earth:
"I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions...Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman" (Deseret News, Church News, Sept. 19, 1936, p. 2).
LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught:
"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64)
LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife:
"For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother" (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129).
LDS Doctrine and Covenants promises the faithful LDS couple that they can achieve godhood in the same manner as God the Father:
"...if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity,... they shall [have]...a continuation of the seeds [children] forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting,... Then shall they be gods, because they have all power,... and continuation of the lives,... [endless procreation of spirit children]" (Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:18-22)
LDS President Brigham Young taught that faithful Mormons can achieve godhood:
"Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligences that dwell in eternity. We are now in the school, and must practice upon what we receive" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 245).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith said:
"We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or a similar ordeal" (Gospel Doctrine, p. 54).
As recently as 2007 both Apostle Boyd K. Packer and Dallen Oakes, during an interview for PBS, explained that God the father has a resurrected body. Apostle Packer stated:
"That vision [Joseph Smith's 1820 vision] taught us some things. We learned about the personality of God the Father, a resurrected Being, as part of our gospel." [link]
Apostle Oakes used the same term when he was interviewed:
"The first revelation received by Joseph Smith was the appearance to him of the Father and the Son embodied, separate, identifiable, tangible Beings who appeared to him in what we refer to as the First Vision. And that first revelation, concerning the nature of God as an embodied, glorified, resurrected Being, challenged the creeds of Christianity. Christianity describes God as a disembodied, incomprehensible, spiritual entity that fills the whole universe, and an indistinguishable Father and Son." [link]
LDS Apostle James E. Talmage taught that God progressed from a mortal to a god:
"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement — a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be'" (Articles of Faith, Ch. 24, p. 430-431).
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What the Bible Says About God
1. ALWAYS GOD - in the past as well as in the future.
"Art thou not from ever-lasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One?" Hab. 1:12
"For I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6
"...from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psa. 90:2
"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent." Num. 23:19
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." Rom. 1:22-25
The LDS god started as a finite man and progressed to godhood.
2. ALWAYS HOLY - Both in the past and future.
"...a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut. 32:4
"I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee." Hos. 11:9
"The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works." Psa. 145:17
"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5
"Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness." Psa. 119:142
The LDS god achieved holiness.
3. ALL KNOWING - Both in the past and in the future.
"Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? ... There is no searching of his understanding." Isa. 40:13, 14, 28
"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." Psa. 147:5
The LDS god had to learn everything.
4. ALL POWERFUL
"The Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Rev. 19:6
"...his eternal power and Godhead." Rom. 1:20
The LDS god attained his power.
5. OMNIPRESENT
"The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; where is the house that ye build unto me: and where is the place of my rest?" Isa. 66:1
"Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:23-24
The LDS god can be in only one place at a time.
6. ACTED ALONE IN CREATION
"I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." Isa. 44:24
"By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth." Psa. 33:6
"Thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all." Neh. 9:6
The LDS god cooperated with the Council of Gods to create.
7. NO OTHER GODS
"I am he; before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." Isa. 43:10-11
"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....is there a God beside me; yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isa. 44:6 & 8
"To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isa. 46:5 & 9
"I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another." Isa. 42:8
The LDS God has a father and mother, grandparents, brothers and sisters, etc.
For a more in-depth discussion of the LDS view of God and man:
Mormonism and the Threefold Problem of Progression: Examining the LDS Doctrine of Eternal Progression in Light of the Bible, Philosophy, and Science
Words do fail at times......
Mal. 3: 18
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
Heb. 11: 4
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Matt. 10: 41
41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.
Not one of those verses means that you have to work to earn your salvation.
Good works that mean anything are a result of being saved.
What they do is earn you reward in heaven. They don’t earn you heaven.
Nice cherrypicking, Stourme.
A compliment, though: At least you picked the right chapters to focus on...if you were going to try to do some kind of "statistical analysis" of who would retain new life/consummate salvation.
What's interesting is that you easily found the two chapters mentioning a still general term Jesus uses of "few", but somehow in your "statistical analysis" you skipped over the one verse that actually provides a % for us (Matt. 25:2).
It's not as if you missed Matt. 25. Why didn't you cite v. 2? Was that a deliberate skip-over? Was it because it didn't match your theme scheme?
Here's Matt 25:2: Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
That's a 50% ratio, Stourme.
So how do we reconcile the 50% of Matt 25:2 with the "few" of Matt. 7 & Luke 13?
It's simple. The "few" of Matt. 7 & Luke 13 is against the backdrop of humanity -- the humanity's that ever lived...and the humanity that as we move closer to the days when Jesus returns...it'll be darker than ever...(see Matthew 24).
The 50% figure is in ratio to the people who go out to meet the Bridegroom. These are people who have been wanting and waiting to see Him. They're not the type of people who are going to flee in fear when Jesus returns. IOW, I'm pretty sure we can discount the "unchurched" from even being a part of this ratio (on either side).
What's interesting, Stourme, is that in Matt. 25...the 50% of people anticipating Jesus' return are locked out because they lack one readiness: Oil...a symbol in the Scriptures for the Holy Spirit. They lack the Holy Spirit in their lives.
* When the word "temple" is mentioned to Jews, they tend to think of a physical location.
* When the word "temple" is mentioned to Mormons, they tend to think of a physical location. [If you don't believe me, go to your Mormon bookstores and look over all the books on temples]
* When the word "temple" is mentioned to Christians, most tend to think of the flesh-and-blood Body of Christ, which is a temple of the Holy Spirit.
When Lds "apostles" through the years have described the Holy Spirit, you have Lds "prophets" like Joseph Smith and "apostles" like John Widtsoe who describe Him in impersonal terms and use the word "IT" in conjunction with Him. The Mormon Times to this very year makes the exact same mischaracterization of the Holy Spirit.
Likewise, the Mormon Encyclopedia -- and historically, Lds "apostles" like Heber C. Kimball -- have labeled the Holy Spirit to be a "man."
If you do what Jehovah's Witnesses do, and depersonalize the Holy Spirit...and just as bad, if you make the Holy Spirit out to be a "man" -- you show that Mormons don't even know who the Holy Spirit is!
Thus, it appears Lds would either fall into two categories: Either the 50% ratio anticipating to see Jesus, but will be locked out -- not even knowing the true Holy Spirit of which they try to speak. Or, realizing that they have not trusted Jesus' cross to cover their sins -- that they've tried to merit God's forgiveness, they run from Him and aren't even considered to be either of those 50% ratios...they would be part of the "broad" of Matthew 7.
I suppose I'll next have to trot out the verses from...
...from the D&C (76:52)...
...The Lds church, (Gospel Principles, 1997, p. 253)
...Spencer W. Kimball (in his book, The Miracle of Forgiveness, several references)
...from Bruce McConkie (Mormon Doctrine, p. 295)
...from Lds "apostle" Boyd Packer...
...& other Lds "prophets"...
......who have all preached that you have to earn/merit your forgiveness.
What are you trying to put pass me silly one...
NEVER, lucifer is not a human being, never was, never will be, but a different creation all together. Because of his place infront of God, there was no excuse for his rebellion, nor any provision for any grace. His was a form of the unpardonable sin.
Humanity is a separate creation from the angels. I know mormonism doesn’t teach that, but you asked MY interpretation as a Christian.
***
This scripture is very clear
Job 38
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Isa 14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Lucifer was one of the sons of God
BTW
Rev. 22: 16
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
I guess that pesky little word IF is very hard to figger out at times; eh?
You’re NUTS!
(Must be too much education...)
;^)
| You are kidding; Right? [Elsie] |
Your 'question' seems to be mostly mere ASSUMPTION/strawman.
There you go AGAIN!!
Posting BIBLE verese that may or not be TRANSLATED right!
How can you keep doing this with all of the doubt that it must incur?
THIS one is NOT!
"Mother; I have learned that PRESBYTERIANism is not true."
THESE are too!
THIS is too!
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